Roe vs Wade - The call for compassion

Hello, and welcome to Our Podcast being effing honest, I'm Jennifer Wong. And I'm Charity Rodrigues. We invite you into our conversations about everyday issues experienced by everyday people. We share our stories with honesty and humor, hoping to bring people together in community by showing how vulnerability can deepen bonds when done with kindness and non judgment. We know it's tough, so we'll go ahead and go first.

I'm going to be very effing honest, this episode almost didn't happen. At first due to fear, uncertainty and doubt on our part. And then because of gremlins. When the decision first leaked, we were hesitant to speak to each other, let alone on the show. Should we say anything? Initially, we didn't even discuss our views, experiences and thoughts on abortion with each other, let alone broach it as a show topic. After some exhaustive dancing around the elephant in the room, we finally broke down and agreed to record a conversation as an episode, so our audience would get our raw responses. Full disclosure, that first conversation left us in tears. Little did we know that due to technical difficulties, we'd have the same conversation three times each as emotionally impactful as the first. Our recording equipment had silently failed on the first attempt. So we tried again, Jennifer returning empowered by each attempt, only to have a similar experience. We tried a third time, full of equal parts hope and trepidation, as it started out, Rocky, but finally, Holy Toledo, we had a recording. We are very proud of this episode, as it demonstrated to us the power we have as women to control our narratives, our bodies and our lives, through our ability to be vulnerable, compassionate, and transparent. This is one of those moments in history for women to stop being nice. And start being effing honest. Okay,

we are here we are recording we are working. Yes, lots of deep breaths. We are learning technology like nobody's business.

So true.

I've learned more than I ever do.

Yeah, we'll get this figured out sooner or later, for sure.

But it's exciting, because now we're gonna sound more professional people can hear us better. We're going to be video at some point. So this is good.

Yes, excited. Me excited. I know me too.

We've come a long way. And I just want to celebrate that I loved seeing that we had 200 downloads. I know that does, you know, compared to everybody else, it's not much, but I am excited. It's grow.

I know I'm super excited to just like, oh, I every time a Buzzsprout sends up that you've hit, you know, 100 then then to find deals like and they have the confetti and the party has this like yes, it's a party.

It's so fun. Cool. So thank you everybody that listens and takes the time to give us a review or subscribes. I'm really grateful. Really cool. And thank you charity for getting our website up at WWW dot being effing honest.com. So we have our blog there now and we have all of our podcast episodes and people can leave comments. We'd love to

hear yes. Yeah, pretty excited about that. Definitely keep checking back because we're adding more content and links and just exciting information. So

very exciting. So today's topic, something we have to let everybody know being effing honest, we have tried to record this episode three times. And mostly on my end, finding out I don't have enough storage, finding all kinds of stuff, but we are learning. So let's see how this goes today.

While also superstitious me. I'm like, maybe we weren't supposed to talk about this. This is the God's saying no, or this is like my parents their spirits saying charity You don't go there. I totally I'm like, okay, maybe I shouldn't talk about this. But here we go. Here we are. We are brave and bold. We're going to do this.

Yes, we are. And maybe it's just that it's such an intense and huge issue, you know, overturning of Roe versus Wade, after 50 years of it being the law. It's very odd. Yeah, it's all of a sudden just ripped out from under us. And spurring a lot of discussions and conflict and all kinds of stuff. Plus, you know, we're in the, we're still under the spell of COVID, and all of that. So it's just a small twist time, and we are going through so much. So absolutely are, it seems interesting that this is happening at the same time, but like, one of my spiritual mentor says, she said, we are in the compost. You know, this is the time in our evolution in our history in the cyclical period, where things are getting broken down old stuff that wasn't working anymore, is coming to the surface thing. You know, none of this stuff that is going on, I think is new, it's always been vibrating at the foundation of the fabric of our country anyway. And with certain administrations, it's been opened up and available to come forth. So it's just coming to the light. So we'll see I agree, but

no, I totally agree.

And I know that we have discussed this three times now. So we've talked about a lot of things with Roe versus Wade a lot.

We have, I've learned so much. So much. And it's had my I mean, you got me thinking you got me thinking a lot. I did not realize how I guess in the dark or with my blinders, I really walk around with my blinders on a lot. How about that?

So what does that mean?

Well, I don't know. No, no, no. It's, um, yeah, no, I was okay. I, for this episode, I really wanted to make sure that I was concise, that I was focused, that I said exactly what I meant, and that it was very clear. So I was writing out, you know, some things and I thought it was best to write it out. Because I wanted to put that, like, since we have our blog, I was gonna, like, put, you know, the notes of what, but I just like, I personally, I believed that I had no vested interest in abortion, as it did not, would not ever apply to me. Okay, so my parents didn't discuss such matters. I was raised thinking abortion was for wayward girls or women who got into trouble for, you know, whatever reason and needed to take care of something discreetly. I also thought that it was something wealthy women did to continue living their glamorous and flawless lives. And so that, that was my my thinking. That's where I was at, before June 24. And then, June 24, came and that everything leading up to June 24, like I was in like, oh my gosh, and that really shattered my bubble. Because when the news hit that the Supreme Court, you know, might overturn Roe vs. Wade. I just thought I would continue with my blinders on and I was going to ignore all the noise and just, you know, go along and sing my song and like, whatever that has nothing to do with me, except, except I forgot that I have a daughter here in the house with me. I forgot my daughter's voice. And our daughter, her friends, their peers, you know, social media kept bringing up the topic. And they were, they were a gas you know, they were aghast and frustrated. I was But gassed, and frustrated or I guess maybe scared? Because I was like, why did we have to keep talking about this? Like, I didn't want to talk about it. But I didn't want to say to her stop talking about that, like we don't that does has nothing to do with us. But she kept pulling, pulling, you know, her hesitant mom into the fray. And I, you know, almost said why do you care so much, this has nothing to do with you, and it never will. But she kind of beat to the punch by reminding me and bringing into my conscious, I'm not even reminding you that bringing to my consciousness because this was so like very deep. I was just really was not. This was not in my world sphere, that she reminded me that this decision wasn't about abortion. But it was about privacy. It was about autonomy. It was about control. And by overturning Roe versus Wade, the Supreme Court told the women of America that the moment you conceive, your body is no longer your

own. Yes.

And when she, you know, framed it like that, and was telling me all of all of that it it you know, now the state has the right to control your body to control your life, no matter how deeply personal, the emotional, physical cause that you have to bear, it does not matter. Like they don't care. And that that was tough. I mean, it was really, it was really tough. And I have to say that. Although I was cared and very timid, very hesitant to step I wasn't stepping with her, I was stepping behind her because she is now leading, you know, the way she's like, Mom, we have to do this, let's go like, You got to be involved. And I felt like, okay, like, I wanted to be brave, I want it to be bold, because that's what I tell her to be and try to encourage her to be and try to model for her. And here was a moment where I was about to shriek back into the safety of my little, you know, cozy existence. And she's like, Let's go they fully I could see she's looking at my eyes like, of course, you're gonna do this, you're my Mom, let's go come on. I was like, like real? Come on, like, dude, let's just sit let's have a cup of tea. And let's just chat about it.

And let's keep it in this bubble.

can't exactly do it like that. But I have to say that I've never felt prouder of my daughter, and so happy that she was able to pull me from my perch and realized that, like, you know, my husband and I were talking about it that this was her standing up. This was her asserting herself, her values, her understanding. And what she was communicating to us was that she realized, and she assumed that we realize this, too, that everyone needs our compassion and not our judgment. Thank you. And, you know, then we were able to talk about, yeah, life is messy. And people have the right to determine their own fates, and decide what's best for them and their families. And that it's no one else's business. No one is not my business. My neighbor does not need to be getting into my business. I don't need to be getting into their business. Not that like I'd have that has nothing to do with me if some, you know, what the woman is going through and whatever her support system is, you know, enduring that the government doesn't be involved in that and

and I love that you brought up your daughter because they're our daughters, our oldest are really close in age. And my oh I just felt very similar, like what I mean, she actually woke me up, the minute she saw on social media or wherever she gets her news that the draft was out. She told me before anybody else did, and she was up in arms woke me up was just like, I can't. I mean, it was like, as if it was very personal to her. And it's that way for a lot of her friends. And I really appreciate how you talked about your bubble. And we have had that conversation a few times about our bubbles, you know, like, yeah, we just want to control what's right here, because it's a lot. And we don't have really reference for everybody else. And I mean, I totally get that. And, and so how has it How has your opinion changed about Roe versus Wade? Or about just the choice in general?

I don't think it's for me to judge. I don't think I cannot be if we're going to espouse religion, I'll espouse compassion. I'll espouse love, all espouse support, all espouse, you know, help your neighbor, you know, when they need help, I'm not going to espouse you know, righteousness and the, we need to put a scarlet letter on you and Dan you to the, you know, depths of the hell, like I'm not the judge, whatever, whoever your higher being, your spiritual being your, whatever you go, that's, that's where you need to go to, you go there, you make your peace, that's between you and them. And that's, that's you, that's you, this isn't anything new, this isn't something that just came about because of television, or women wearing jeans on TV that, you know, like, or whatever, right? Because people will pull from all sorts of nonsense. These things have been happening since the beginning of time. And so it's just people, you know, I don't know, it's life is messy. It's not a simple black and white, it's not an easy, like, Oh, I see where you made the mistake there. See, you shouldn't have done that. It's just things happened. And everybody's story is a little bit different. And just let people deal with what they have to deal with. And they just have the right to some medical support, they need to have the right to not have neighbors knocking on them, or whatever they need to be able to go about their business. Not in fear. But I mean, that we have so much fear already.

I think that has a lot to do with it. You know, when I when I heard about this, I I wanted to do the research. But you know, me, I'm not the huge researcher, mainly because I don't trust the research sources. But I do have a good friend who he was one of the leading humanitarian attorneys for the US for years, probably in the 90s and early 2000s. And so I go to him, I'm like, Alright, you've been in the trenches. You You've written briefs for the Supreme Court, you know, the laws lay on me, brother. So I've been asking him over time, you know, I and I just had specific questions. I mean, it's huge, right? It's huge. And the funny thing is, why are women's bodies even up for law? Like, yeah, in the very first place? Where are men's bodies? Where are their laws regulating men's bodies and choices? Why is a woman even considered to put a law against in the first place? I mean, that that we need to look at, like, yes, the heck is going on there. Yeah. And then, you know, and then they have another male friend who, you know, it's great. I have these male friends, right? So this is such a great opportunity to speak with them about this. And my other male friend is he's super intelligent, does does a lot of research, and I know him through my paying job. And we have very different opinions on this. And we had a really long conversation, which was really beautiful, actually, because we still found common ground and I got to hear his perspective. And he got to your mind, which was brilliant. Like, this is what I would hope for everybody is to be able to not hate each other because you get a different perspective. But in the end, does a law need to support one belief system? I have a problem with that. So because his his take on it was? Well, I think the issue begins with where you determine life begins. Because for some people, this is murder. Right? Right, this becomes a legal issue, you're not allowed to murder. Okay. So he, his his take was, it really depends on where you see life begins. That is a big part of the issue, right? Because in his, in his belief, it was the moment the egg and the sperm unite and something starts to grow. In my opinion, that's not viable life. Right. So then it got into the details of that. So but I understood how it could feel like by making this decision, it's ending life. So I was like, Maybe that is why it's even a lot. And then my lawyer friend, and I said, well, that becomes a belief system. Right, which is, in my experience, it's been religious, depending on your religious beliefs when that happens, because science is saying one thing religion is saying another thing, right, so who wins? But this overturning of Roe versus Wade made me believe that who was winning is the religious sector, because it's their belief that's being supported, not a scientific belief. Right? Because I think there have been states that have said, you know, over so many weeks, right, like, you can't do it when it's could live outside your body. Right? I mean, right. Right. Right. That's a whole different story. Right. And, and then I said, Well, isn't there something in the Constitution that says you cannot? You have to have a separation of church and state. And then he went through the amends like the amendments with the Yeah, the amendments with me. And basically, what it says is, the government cannot keep a religion from for me, a government cannot discriminate against religions. But as far as the government supporting a religion, yes, they can. Yes, they can. So it was just a good awakening for me, because I kept fighting on that, like, what about the separation of church and state? Well, it's not what I thought it was. Right? It doesn't mean that they can't instill laws or implement laws, based on a religious belief. There's nowhere in that, that says that. So it's all legal as far as that's concerned. So that was really a hard pill to swallow. So that makes me a little bit crazy, too, that we are subject to the laws of one belief system. We have freedom and that, and as long as we're regulated, as long as women, as bodies are regulated, we do not have full freedom. We do not get liberty for all we do not because liberty is freedom. And once laws start inhibiting our freedom, we've lost our liberty. So how is that? You know, how is that but

it apparently is okay for women to be on the losing end of the stick. It doesn't matter. Because we are being controlled. But the thing too, is that I wanted to make sure I stated was we need to step back and keep stepping back and keep stepping back. Because before we even like, touch on the abortion, right, there are all of these other issues that if we had better support system that works in place to help people, women, families, maybe they would lessen the having to have abortion as a choice option. Right, if there was more, I don't know, equalized spread of the wealth. If there was more education for everybody, you know, sex education project, because the thing that like that a lot of the times the religious right, don't want to talk about sex. That's just not something we talk about. And then things happen. And children are like, I don't know what happened. How did this happen to me like what the you know, and then it compound's the situation right now. There's blame on it's everybody else's fault. It's like, well, everyone had a part to play. And just because you're ignorant, and what does it mean, you know, like, we need to have more resources, we need to have more support, we need to have more understanding for everyone. And then so that, you know, when you do get to that option, it's a Yeah, okay. Wow, you know, you've eliminated all these other nonsense things, because maybe, maybe they would happily go. Yeah, I'm gonna have that baby. It's okay. Because I'm financially secure. I have education, I have medical support, you know, for my baby, for my family, I have enough leave to you know, be but maybe and, and then there's support from your community, right, because a lot of women have come forward. And given their personal stories of what has happened, and, you know, and when it's happened and what happened. And they didn't step forward before because they were going to be shunned. Right, because now everyone that that criticism that judgment. And it could be, it could have been like, well, who the heck cares what the reason was, doesn't mean it matter what the reason was, doesn't matter if it was a one night stand doesn't matter if it was some medical reason, like just the fact that they had to go through this. And they had to go through it in quiet, like, and, you know, keep it out to themselves. Like, you know, that's, that's trauma, that's emotional, mental health. They were talking about all of that. And but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what your mental health state of being was before or after, doesn't matter what your emotional state before or after, doesn't matter. Your economic doesn't matter. They just don't care. And it's just like, No, we're just going to imprison you. We're going to take away your rights. And we're going to, you know, and everybody around you, it's back to the Middle Ages, I quit some of this stuff. And it's like that we're how, how and why. So my friend

said, If we went back to the Dark Ages, women had more rights. That's the Middle Ages where everything gets screwed up. Yeah, I agree. I think community and I think knowledge, I think getting the shame, you know, shame loves silence. It just builds and grows, you know, yeah, shame loves when we're quiet about it. So. And then in that quietness, we become fearful. And look how easy it is to control. You know, there's fear, the answer is always control. Well, yeah, the unconscious answer is control. So

it's all of these things that women have to go through all of these things, and then you're still expected to run your household. I mean, I don't care what people say. The woman is still expected to mollify task and swallow their feelings, swallow their emotion, swallow their trauma, swallow whatever, because for the betterment of their child for the betterment of their partner, for the betterment of their families, the greater, you know, families and a woman like okay, yeah, you're a woman, you can you can cry, but you can only cry for so much. And then you gotta get back to it. But it's just, I don't know, I know.

And I talked, I had a friend remind me, Jennifer, you're always free. You're always free. And it's just a matter, I guess, of being innovative and having boundaries and learning about our own strength. Because, yeah, the law says that. But there's always going to be a way hopefully. I don't know. It's very, very tricky. And I was thinking, Well, you know, one argument was men should be held accountable. It's not like a woman can just reproduce on her own without amoebas. But I don't know if I really want that either. I don't want a man to all of a sudden have a say in this over my body. You know, I don't I don't think that's appropriate, either. I think there should be communication, there should definitely see that conversation. There should be an agreement, you know, and that goes with the support, right? If you're learning how to communicate and standing your truth and really identify what's going on. It may create a different conversation where the results are different, but that's not where we're at. and that the thought of a man just being, you know, how are you? How is a man going to become accountable for my body? Again, it's already why we're in this problem because men have felt entitled to have control over our bodies. So I just

want to control your body. But okay, one thing you said that you were free. And then you said that we should have discussions, communication, you know, with the man and I. Okay, I don't know how to express this, like, let me formulate this thought. We have a men, a man and a woman can agree that like, we're gonna get dizzy. And you know, then if the man decides he does not want to stay, for the after, for the aftermath, for the raising the child for the caring for the child for the emotional, financial and physical investment of the child, the guy can just walk away, and I don't care. I'm not talking about well, they still have to pay, you know, something, there are so many women that are still going after guys trying to get them to pay. There are so many guys that have gone left the country changed their names like totally, so that they're not involved with that woman. And then they could care less about the kids. Like they're not even there's no even after thought of. But what about how this is gonna affect the children? No, like, what about that? Like, they're talking about the children right now. But then how are we holding accountable the men that just bail, just straight up bail. And this is across all economic. You know, the economic spectrum. You have men that have money, they can afford all these babies left and right. But even then they're just like, You know what, it's just too much work with this baby. The first one like, Whatever, I'm gonna go start over new over here, you know, with this new Suzie Q, and I'm gonna be the best father there is with this unit. But you still have two kids over here. Like, what about them, but it doesn't matter. They can just erase that they can just, you know, Father that says that stays Awesome. Great. I'm not talking about you. So I'm definitely we're not. I'm not saying all men are evil that No, I'm not. But we have far more men that are willing and interested in you know, doing everything to create that baby, but then walk, they can walk their life is not affected. Maybe, you know, they can keep on working, choose to pay not to pay. It'll just keep on compounding sometimes, I don't know, I've heard that courts can go after you. Right, and like dock, your pay? And, you know, whatever. I don't know how often that happens. Yeah, if they can find you, right, like, you know, gets caught up in court, you're having a get off your job to go to court to get something written. So they're like, I need this man to pay for the baby. Right? You know, I'm working three jobs, and I can't afford to take time off to come to this court because this person won't hold up to their end of the Union.

So obviously, courts have not been able to even hold them accountable. And that

it just clear that they're interested, like, why aren't you go after something like that.

And then the law basically says, we care all about this baby. And then once it's born, we don't give a shit anymore. Boom. So who's going to emotionally raise it? Who's gonna, you know, not only financially, I mean, there's this huge emotional thing. The emotions that are what about kids that are born as a result of rape or incest? Yeah, how's that gonna affect them?

They don't care. They have said that they do not care. There is no support to that mother. Child. You know, there's nothing there. They weren't talking about if, you know, maybe what was it that they there was something that on lady said, like, well, maybe this will help her step up. And, and, you know, see what a great mother and what a great opportunity this is for her to develop into a fine young woman and I was like, This is a young kid that something horrible has happened. I can't even deal with the trauma of the rape because now we're dealing with the trauma of you're not going to allow her to have an abortion and then the There's no support for her. If she has the baby, because of the way our system is set up, we shun people, we judge people, we criticize people. We're not asking like, oh, well, what happened? What was your story? How did you end up in this situation? And maybe I'll have a little more compassion for you. Maybe I'll know. It's just like, Ooh, a, Where were those parents? Letting that girl you know, be caught up in a situation like that? Then what was she doing? What was she wearing? Oh, she was dressed promiscuously. I mean, it's just all sorts of nonsense, versus let's get them some medical help. Let's get them some financial and mental health help. Let's make sure that there's a process in place for this child to continue with their education, you know, to continue to be working towards some kind of a future that they will prosper. But we're quick to cut the cord and just like, tennis Sucks to be you and move on.

I know. And then my daughter brought to my attention that certain states are going to prosecute a woman for going across state lines and having an abortion. And then when she gets back then she is a woman who's had one while resident in that state, and she's gonna go to jail. So I just think that is just in sane. It's in sanity. I can tell you that. So that reduces a woman's freedom 100% while still offering no support for this baby that may go into the system.

Yeah. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Isn't that it for like, put the baby up for adoption? No, but the woman is being prosecuted? Yep. Right. And adoptions. Like the

best case scenario? My sister was in children's protective services in the foster care system is a complete and utter mess. Yeah. Thank you. I've heard that Ooh, don't have an abortion, though. That's a great high for children. That's wonderful. Good job.

Like, can we put some more resources into the abortion and that system? Right? Can we give them more money? Give them more resources, give those children better? No, no, of course not. We're not going to do that.

Like, we're just going to restrict women's rights. It's way cheaper.

Yeah, we're going up. It's the woman's fault. Always the woman's fault. For

a shame around it, I think is a big piece. It's a huge piece. And if we listen to each other stories, I I have heard maybe five or six women that I know that have that have had them. And not one person did it lightly. Not one person felt good about it. You know, there was so much emotional pain that goes into it. You know? Yeah, no one just does it. Oh, no problem. I can't say that, because I'm not every woman. But in my experience, I haven't met a woman that was like, I don't I didn't have any other choice. Dun dun. And I haven't met anybody like that yet. And to be honest, I mean, have I? Yes, I have had one, I have had one. And it was actually upon having one. And sharing it with my close friends that I could trust was when I heard other people's stories. And that's when that compassion piece came in. And it was almost like, every time we talked about it, we kind of healed each other a little bit. And for me, I ended up doing a ritual around it, because it really affected me deeply. You know, and even though I was busy, and I was raising a little one at the time, and I was super, super busy, it was really affecting me. It really did affect me. And for seven years, I think I held on to that. Maybe like two or three close friends knew about it. One of them knew because I asked her to be there for me, because the father didn't want to be there and didn't want anything to do with it. Because he was in an agreement with it.

So he didn't want anything to do with the baby or the process that the procedure you were going to

he wanted to go and didn't want to support my process of not having another one. And you know, my reasons were because I was super old. And my body couldn't handle it. I had a six month old and at that time, I almost it was a very hard pregnancy. And I my blood platelets got really low and they were really, really worried that I was going to bleed out. And they had suggested you probably shouldn't have any more babies. Right? That was medical advice. And then this happened and I didn't know what to do. And so I called upon On a friend that was super solid that I could trust and she went with me, she took the day off of her work helped my six month old while I could have this horrible process done. And even the male doctor that did the process shamed me, you better take care of yourself, you better use prophylactics and I would suggest that your husband get a vasectomy. And if he doesn't, I don't ever want to see him in here again. It was like, oh my god, I felt terrible. Yeah, I remember him saying that, and just all the energy in my body just like, Whoa, I felt like a total piece of shit. You know, it was terrible. And it was just interesting. It ended up I ended up having a huge spiritual experience. Because at the time I was in a, in a 12 step program, not alcoholics anonymous, but another one. And I had a sponsor, who was working with me on the 12 steps. And we were I think we were on the first or second step, which is all about basically understanding what my higher power was, and then giving my giving everything up to it, you know, like, I can only do so much. But there's so much out of my control. And my sponsor at the time, who is now past, she was really big on working with me on self love. So self love was a big piece. And I needless to say, I didn't love myself at all. During this process. I felt terrible. I took on all the guilt and shame that I had heard other people, judge others who have had abortions, and I took that on, and maybe I believed it a little bit to be so hard on myself. You know, maybe I had those judgments against women that had an abortion. So the spiritual part that happened was while I was lying on the table, and the procedure was going on. I was praying, you know, for forgiveness. I mean, the whole time I was just praying, please forgive me. And suddenly, with my eyes closed, there was this beautiful purple light. And all I heard was, You are loved. You are loved, you are loved, you are loved. And I thought, well, that definitely wasn't coming from me. Because at the time I was thinking, I am such a horrible person. I am not worthy of love. I am just so sorry. I was groveling to my higher power. Just please forgive me, please forgive me. And all I heard moving on was You are loved you are not to be loved. And I cried. And I cried. And the doctor laughed, you know, clean yourself up, you're done. And when I got out, I found my friend holding my six month old and I just cried and cried and cried. And but that stayed with me for a really long time. That where was that coming from? I am loved. Because even when I was getting in the car, I was like, No, I'm not. I'm such a horrible person. This is the worst possible thing, you know, because my head is my worst enemy too. But then I think seven years later, I'm I have another friend who does rituals. And when I was going through my divorce, all the red flags were there. I went to go see her because she's a she's also a counselor therapist. She's a coach, and but she also brings into her work a lot of rituals that she learned from her mentor from West Africa. And so as we were working through this deep grief and sadness and guilt that I had over ending a marriage and what it was gonna do to my children, we just got brought up. And it's been seven years. And she said, I think we need to do a ritual. And we did and it was really beautiful. And I finally felt like I got to really speak to the unborn soul. And there was a healing, there was a definite healing because since then, I can talk about this, and I don't cry. That was back in 2019. It was three years ago, I was never able to even talk about that moment of not having that baby without completely crying. And I still feel this deep sense of sadness. But there was a lot of awareness that came through that ritual too. And I know spirituality is very unique to the individual. And there's a lot of naysayers, but I heard things I saw things in my meditations during that ritual that felt real and true. And there's a lot I learned about myself in that. In that process, you know about who I am and my strength and the ability to love myself my ability to connect with power greater than myself. My ability to understand and really embody my belief system. How to feel love to feel forgiveness to feel lessons learned. You know, one of the things that my I guess, the woman that helped walked me through that ritual had said, in her teachers tradition, if a soul doesn't get born due to abortion or miscarriage, it wasn't meant to be, you know, maybe it knew that when it came in, and it was just to have that experience, and to see how it affected you and to see your own belief systems and just, you know, who knows, you know, there's. So for me, it was really to learn about self love and self forgiveness, you know, but here again, it's about having compassion, it's about listening to a woman's story here in the whole, giving a woman the opportunity to process it. I mean, I held in so much that I don't even think I knew my full process of that event. And I'm not saying everybody's gonna feel like this. And this is everybody's story by any means. But you had talked about compassion and listening to other women. And I think that is incredibly vital. And it's life changing, you know. And so now, when I hear other women that cannot have one, or they're going to jail, all I want to do is grab a fan and go make it happen. Yeah, I want to help them because I know how hard that decision is to make.

Well, and you've heard me say before, how I feel that the government and just people are trying to divide and conquer, you know, us, of people. And I feel like that's another instance where women need to come together, like we need to support each other, we should not allow ourselves to be broken down into these fractions. Because at the end of the day, we're women, we are all women, and we, it could happen to you, it may happen to you, it did happen to you, it will happen, or it will affect you. And or your daughter, niece, sister, like what ever and we need to support each other, we have so much judgment and criticism already going up against us, like we don't need to be against each other. Like that's the last thing we need to do is just to be like, Yeah, I'm gonna throw some eggs and tomatoes at you, too, when you are down at your lowest. Because that will show you that will teach you a lesson. Yeah, make you see that, you know, this is what happens when you do something like that, or get yourself in that situation or do something, right. It's just like, No, people. Everyone is interpreting, you know, religion, that the Bible and their understanding just I just don't think that's exactly what was meant. Just right. Just don't think that that's what was meant. And I do not profess to have a direct link to God, I have no idea. I am always weary of people that think that they have a direct link to God that they have gotten us on a, you know, speed dial, and it's like, God told me, this is what I'm like, oh, no, I back away from that. I like, yes. I believe there is a God, I believe there is a higher being, I have no problem with that. And, but at the end of the day, it's you have to make your choices, make best choices, you know, for yourself or your family, so forth and so on. And you go from there. Yeah, you go from there. You can't we need to support each other. And yeah, I'm with you. Like, yeah, let's get a band that's doing and I would never have thought to do that before like a charity shop. I would just be like, again, with my little blinders on. I'm like, No, but I feel desperate. Now. I feel like I must help them in any way I can. And if this is, I mean, is it kind of like fighting fire with fire? Like it's that now where, you know, I'm gonna pick up my fire stick to and I'm gonna go do that. because if we don't speak up, then who will? If we don't say something, then who will? And it's not just us. I mean, it's not just me. He's not like, Oh, I'm a martyr. And I'm gonna, like, oh, no, we've been quiet, far too long bar to everyone with the little blinders on new that's not working.

And I believe that get together. It's powerful. And I think men know that. And that's why rules and laws have been put against them just because they're afraid, right? When we're, we control, they are literally afraid of us. And we have been brainwashed all these eons. And we've lost it, we've lost our power, we've lost that idea that, Oh, my God, we are so powerful that they had to rule us they had to control us, because when we gather, and we get together, we are extremely powerful. I mean, think about the witch trials, 300 years, women were not allowed to perform the rituals, were not allowed to walk in a garden under the moonlight because God knows what we could do. Right? That's how powerful we are. And that is how powerful we were perceived. Otherwise, why would you need to? Why would you need to control us? What are you afraid? Yes. So I think

over, I don't think that we have lost, I think they keep trying to squash us. I think they keep trying to keep us down. But we keep coming back. Like you just can't get rid of us. We are strong. We are powerful. And we do need to hold hands and just keep marching forward together, Afghan women with strength and power, like we can do it and we will do it over and over. I mean, even when you are at your very, very, very, very lowest. There is that little ounce something keeps you going something there is some fire in us. That keeps you going and yeah, they're trying to squash that. Absolutely. They can phrase it frame it paint it any way they want to. But yeah, they're trying to control us, because they're afraid we can't allow that. We can't allow that for ourselves. We can't allow that for our children, for our daughters, for anybody. So

the baby, this is a wake up call.

Yeah, well, that was a wake up call. This is another wake up call. Because we have had wake up calls throughout history. And this is just another one. But we have to keep marching forward. It's like no, don't back down. Ladies. Don't make

that dance together. Yes. And I you know, and I have to admit, you know, growing up, there was a lot of competition. I felt like I needed to compete with women. I couldn't be friends with women. It wasn't until I had my first child that I realized how I can even connect with women. I was it took me a long time. All my friends were men until I was about 3132. So, and I usually backed away because of that competition. It was like, I can't even step in that arena. I mean, I'm like a tomboy. I'm a minimalist, like there was no makeup, there was no design, there is no fashion. So I look I couldn't compete, right. And so as I've gotten older, and I have children, and I've maturing and I have wisdom, this is the beauty of being in my fifth decade. I want to just grab everybody's all these women's hands. And, and there's some that I still go, whoop. But I just I want to hear your story. Yes, I understand. Because you are a powerful badass, and it you just don't know it. And I think sometimes that competition is because we lack this understanding of how empowered we are. Intrinsically, it's our birthright, you know, to be powerful, but, you know, we've been brainwashed so long, I even think that whole women competition was for men. Right? Trying to get men's attention, you know, trying to be in the man's world. I mean, even in in corporate settings, you know, women would compete for each other why so they can have a male appreciated job. Yeah, the CEO, you know, ooh, that usually is held by men. You got to behave like man. You know, get rid of your vagina, get on a penis. Let's go you know, so women took that to where it's like, Oh, I'm just gonna be so empowered. But no, they weren't female in power. They were male in power they were really beautiful and were able to take on energy of other people and we did we tried to become like men, which can't blame us if you want to succeed in this world. You got to act like a man Think Like a Man You know, how else are you going to beat a man? Right? So I get it, but I think we don't need to do that anymore. My opinion. We need to gather together and we We're getting too.

I think we're getting too big for our britches and they felt like oh, we gotta push them back. We were getting, you know, too ahead of ourselves.

So let Roe versus Wade just be another wake up call so that we can look at our own power and stand together united. Not like men, but like women.

Absolutely. Nicely said. Alright. That's a good one. We'll wrap on that one.

Yes. Okay, bye. So love your ladies love your women of your friends. Compassion for all because the more compassionate we are to men to they. I know. I know of plenty that are on our side. So

yes, me too. I do. I do know plenty there on our side too. So I have new problems there. Yeah, but big hugs to all the women out there. Whether you've gone through this or not. It doesn't matter. You are loved. You're loved by two people right now. Yeah. You're like there's nobody else. We're telling you. We love you. You're awesome. You're powerful. You're strong. You go girl.

Yep, it's not your fault. No, do what you need to do, honey.

Yep. And there you go. Yay. Thank you for listening to being effing honest with your hosts, Jennifer Wong and charity Rodriguez. Subscribe to our show wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you have a suggestion, question or topic you want us to talk about, connect with us at www being effing honest.com And until next time, we hope you're always being effing honest