Estrangement

Hello, and welcome to Our Podcast being effing honest, I'm Jennifer Wong. And I'm Charity Rodrigues. We invite you into our conversations about everyday issues experienced by everyday people. We share our stories with honesty and humor, hoping to bring people together in community by showing how vulnerability can deepen bonds when done with kindness and non judgment. We know it's tough. So we'll go ahead and go first.

Okay, good morning. Good morning, Jennifer, how are you? I'm good. And I'm actually happy to be back here recording again, it feels like forever. So we just aired, launched our inner critic podcast. And I was listening to it again, because I don't know, I just, I think that we have some good information. And as I was listening to it, I heard us talk about a lot of things, especially about being completely secure in ourselves to move forward and do what we want, and to go after our dreams. And you had just gone to the

the woman's business seminar or workshop in San Antonio. And one of the things you had said, Here, here's the list, there is no box, get out of the box, I need to be so strong in my beliefs and desires that I can't be taken down you. These are not actual quotes. This is what I heard. Innovation is vulnerability, the willingness to fail. Doing the hard things is when things happen. And I am, you know, doing this podcast for one is something that I need a lot of support for, because as you and I both know, we have very full lives. But this was like intuitively brought together it was bigger than us, we started doing it and it's been fabulous. And life is starting to get in the way. And I'm thinking man, I need to get back in the groove of believing in this, you know, believing 100% In this and you know, life got busy. And I asked myself, do I And absolutely, I do believe in this 100% It's just that life got busy. So I think that that was a big difference. And I thought about all those things like, Am I doing the hard things? Yes, I'm doing my best to show up to do the social media to make sure that my eyes are set on this each week. And then the other thing that I felt like listening to that podcast was such perfect timing, because I'm in a state of trying to move out of my job into what I want to do, which is writing. I mean, I am a writer, I'm stating it here, I'm declaring it. And I've been in a writing group. I did a six weeks, and I'm in another six week right now. And it is totally helping me to hone in on my writing skills. And in that inner critic, podcast you had said, you know, there's a point where we get to believing that we need more training, or we're not good enough, or data. And I heard what you had said, knowing that all that is BS. And I just, I don't know, it gave me so much inspiration to keep writing and keep doing what I need to do. So kudos to us is all I'm saying. And it was just a perfect timing. You know, I keep thinking like, I don't need to hear things exactly. When it comes out or in any certain order. The universe will bring me exactly what I need to hear when I need to hear it in that moment. Like if I were to listen to this maybe two weeks from now or listen to it before it got launched, maybe it wouldn't have had the right impact on me. But, boy, it was such a good podcast. So I just wanted to say that.

Awesome. That is awesome. Because sometimes we do need to go back sometimes we're not ready to hear the message or get the insight when we hear it. And we we forget that we kind of brushed that aside because we're like, Oh, I already have read all those books. I know what that what they're saying or I've already heard that before. It you know, like it's not going to do anything, but it may not have been your time. And it sounds like yesterday it was your time you were ready to Meishan and process it. And that's awesome. Hopefully it's like that for other people. They come back and the podcast, find them at the right time in the right place in their lives to help them. So sweet, sweet, sweet. But now today is a new day. And let's get into our new topic. And this was one you're really excited about. It's only really good when you had said at first I was like, Yeah, let's do this.

Do and go ahead and give the title. Well, it's for estrangement, and we thought that it would be nice to discuss this with the holidays coming up. So we're recording this toward the end of October. And even though we've completed our season one, which should end in December, we wanted to add this one in because it's coming up for us, the holidays are coming. And it seems to start bubbling up way before the holidays get here because the planning starts happening. And as a result of having all these holidays, that means family will be showing up in your life in one way or another. Yes, edits made me start thinking about estrangement in particular, like, I love to look at all the positive things happening in the world and in our life. And I will say that the Long family of which is my ancestral lineage is amazing. They are always keeping things together, they are always gathering as a family as a community as a group. And I have to say I learned a lot from the Long family on how to When I talked to my aunt, and I started explaining these things to her, she had no idea. She didn't know that there was so much violence going on in my nuclear family. She had no idea. And I think growing up, what I loved about our family gatherings was my parents behaved in those situations. They must have, I couldn't believe my aunt didn't know, I felt like my parents had done those things to us. Like hit us or just kind of the mean stuff they would say to us. But I don't think they did. They were too busy hosting or talking to the rest of the family and I got to feel safe. So whenever we were in our family gatherings always felt safe. And as a child, my best memories are with the Walton family because we would gather for everybody's birthday. And there was like 15 of us. So we were gathering every month at least and and then when the Lakers were playing during Laker season, we were gathering to watch Laker games. So there was a lot of group activities where we were all in someone's home hanging out or at a park safest places. So I just wanted to say that, that I want to thank my family before we get into the estrangement part, my story of estrangement, and I looked it up and I looked at the a couple of the Google definitions. So estrangement is the loss of a previously existing relationship between a family member or members through physical and or emotional distancing, often to the extent that there is negligible or no communication between the individuals involved for a prolonged period and I thought, oh, Yes, there's a lot of that. And again, thank God to the Walton family because there have been people that probably deserved it didn't get it. We've always been welcoming, even to the people that just, they would like fry your eyebrows, you know, with their words or their actions it was. And the Wong family just, you know, nodded and made small talk and always offered food and always extended the invite with kindness. And it was beautiful. You know, and I think, luckily, we never had people that were, you know, that crossed the line of being abusive to where you have to I think sometimes estrangement is absolutely required, because no one should be putting up with unacceptable behavior as well. Right. But maybe the kindness and the welcoming, created like this bubble where people just didn't go that far. I mean, they'd go to the edge, but they didn't cross the line of unacceptable behavior. You know, like, maybe it was annoying, or it was uncomfortable, but it wasn't. You know, that line is very gray, but it didn't do that, which I thought was really beautiful. So how about you with a stranger?

Oh, no, we know, estrangement? Well, very well. The Rodriguez family, you know, you were saying earlier about we are Wong and how that was always instilled in you. And that was always instilled in me too. With we are Rodriguez. And that's why you're so strong. You can get through things because you are Rodriguez, you can persevere you can take whatever abuse because you are Rodriguez. And I started saying that with my children. Like I just always said that. And not to disregard my husband's side of the family. But I'm like, I'm a Rodriguez said, I, this is how I do things. And this is what I'm going to tell my children. And, you know, if you were to, you know, do your approbation for your family, you go for it, I'm not gonna stop you. But I'm gonna affirm, you know, my children, my family, my heritage, in so forth, and so on. And so the other day, in a couple of weeks back, something happened. My daughter is doing something off at school, and it was a pretty difficult situation that she had to get through. And we were a little nervous, like, Oh, is she going to be able to, you know, handle this. But she, she did. I mean, it was hard. She, she's taken up wrestling. It's what she's doing this awesome. I just take it aggressively. And so she went in there, and she did it. She showed up for her practice session, kind of to see if she could get on the team. And you know, what not? And she said, afterward. She, the coach had asked her like, you know, how did this feel? And how did that feel? And you know, there was a particularly difficult move, and your opponent really like, you know, held you down hard, but you came through it. And she said that it just came out of her mouth. And she said, Yeah, because I'm Rodriguez and Chica says this is how we do nice. That out loud, like you said to me, she's like, Yeah, yeah, I could feel Papi. And I could feel Abuela well with me, like we like, Yes.

That's amazing. So that was pretty cool.

But then, in regards to estrangement, my parents were the glue that kept us together. Like there was a lot of especially emotional abuse, I did not suffer any physical abuse at the hands of my parents, at the hands of my siblings. That's a whole different story. But the once my parents passed away, and I knew I knew this was going to happen, like I saw, and I think I verbally said it out loud. And then I didn't say it again, because I didn't want to be the one that like, Oh, you brought this on everybody because you were so negative. But I just knew that they were the glue. My parents were the glue. And when my parents passed away, like for myself, personally, I was like I was done. For others. In I don't know, I don't know how people want to get together. They'll talk about it, but they don't make the effort and put the energy to get together. And it was kind of like I was the one being looked at like Okay, are you going to do it? And I was like, Why do I Oh I just have to do it. Like, why can't you guys do it? Like, why can't somebody else do it? Why do I always have to do it? And if I don't do it, you guys don't do anything? Like, do you want to get together or not? If you do, you know, let's do this. Everyone has to be a 100% participation, not just I'll do everything, and then you have to show up in joy. And then, you know, walk away. There were a lot of things in our family that also contributed to our estrangement. Things that can't be taken back things that I refuse to ignore and let go. So yeah, we're estranged. I only talked to two of my siblings, I have limited connection with one. If they reach out to me, I immediately reach out. But for the longest time, I was the one constantly reaching out and getting nothing. And then I don't know, they had a come to Jesus moment or something. And suddenly, they'll show up every now and then and be like, I love you. I just want you to know, I love you. I'm like, okay, you know, I love you too, and have a good day. And I just leave it at that. But this sibling had their own drama, trauma, did things that they need to deal with that they have never dealt with. That I wasn't a part of, like, that wasn't my story. That wasn't my history. I didn't contribute to that. They took out their anger on me. But as like, Dude, I was five. You were like, you know, 15, 17 or something. I'm like, what? Why didn't do anything to you. So whatever. But you know, as long as their family is good, and they're being good decisions and living, you know, the best lives they can live. I'm happy for them. So I wish them no ill or anything like that. And you know, I've talked about the other sibling and there's no going back from that one. They have issues that again, I can't, I can and that I can forgive. I guess I guess I can forgive it whatever, at this point, because we've had so much time I haven't talked to them in seven years, like directly talk to them. The last time I saw them was that my like, Well, I've been here seven years. Yeah. So seven years. At my I didn't even talk to them at my mom's funeral. Like we all show up to the funeral. I did not even talk to them. I did not just them. I did not even look at them. I just showed up. I was there. Did my reach out? Oh, no, they never reach out. They are not one to reach out. They will not meet you halfway. They will not acknowledge anything whatsoever. They can run you over in the street, keep on going. You could be in and out of the hospital. And then they show up a month later. Hey, what's going on? Everybody doing this late? I was in the hospital because you ran me over. I don't know what you're talking about. You made it like that. I don't know what you're talking about. It's like, okay, so, no. There you go. That's where we're at.

So, yeah, how is I mean, how do you how are you with that? How have you dealt with that? I'm like during the holidays.

Well, unfortunately, our holidays were big events like otherwise we wouldn't get together. It was easier when I lived there in Florida. And we always got together. We had big gatherings. It was fun. It was exciting. All the food and the preparations and the games and talk and the stories like I just loved the stories. My father would have stories. My one brother would tell stories you catch up on everybody's life. And it was kind of like everyone out trying to outdo everyone with their stories. We have one brother in particular who's just a very good storyteller. So whenever he spoke, it was just like, what next? What happened next? Oh my god, he'd have everybody cracking up and you know, just the things that he did that were funny. Like he could always admit when he made a mistake. And you just keep going. It's like you did it. Like No way. Like you kept Come on man. No. And he'd be like, Yeah, but let me tell you like, let me tell you do happen next. And it's just it's fun. But that, yeah, once my parents passed away, that didn't happen. And like the remaining siblings, we could get together, like, we'll go visit each other, like I've had each other's homes just throughout the year, but we don't, I don't fly out there for Christmas or whatever, then they don't come here. Like we just, you know, we just talk on the phone and do the group texts for the ones that are still in communication with each other. And, you know, well wishes to everyone, but everyone, for the most part does their own thing.

And you feel okay with that?

It is what it is. I can't I mean, I mean, I could change it if I wanted to. But I don't want to anymore. So I'm good. Because unlike your gatherings, you said people didn't cross the line. But at some of our gatherings, people did cross the line. And so it was witnessed, and, and a blind eye was turned to it. And my parents were able to keep it in order, or everyone would be like, Hey, Mom and Dad are here. You know Mami y Papi, estan aqui. Just, you know, get yourself together. Oh, keep it together. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. And, and also, because we didn't see each other, like, all the time, when those gatherings happened, it was a really, it was a roller coaster of emotion will be joy and elation and like, seeing you and the stories, and then there will be something that will be brought up about something in the past that hadn't been addressed. And that was the moment that they chose to say six months ago, you remember when you said XY and Z? And then you I was just like, What man like that was six months ago? Like, I mean, I'm like, Why do you say something six months ago? Why do you have to wait until we get together for Christmas or Easter or whatever? Everybody's here now, can we just have a good time? Yeah. So

I think it goes back to what you said, like people have their own traumas and issues that do not get healed or worked on and so don't, then it's it, you know, and I think that goes back to being codependent. And then there's the whole forgiveness thing that we had talked about, but I don't think that's launched yet. And it's just, there's a whole bunch that goes into it. And I think it's really difficult. You know, I saw and even though I said the wrong family was good. The front side was not the front side of my family was constantly going through strange moments constantly. Somebody was on the outs, somebody wasn't coming in. And, and it was really small, it was just my mom, her brother and my grandmother. And, and as I've gotten older, I realized there was a lot of trauma on that side of the family, a lot of unhealed, unaware of trauma, I don't even think they would have thought, oh, we have trauma in the family. And it just keeps going and going and going and going. And so growing up, I had an uncle who I love dearly. And he would come and go in the family and and some of it was by his own choice, you know, he would, you know, he would just flake and not show up. And then there was the other times where he wasn't invited. So my mom and him would go through these huge prolonged periods of time where they did not talk. And looking back at it. Now, I think God, both of their traumas were just crashing into each other, and they just couldn't take it anymore. And so that was that was the end of that. And I remember. So they would go years and I'd always wonder, when I was probably up until the age of 10 or 11. I wonder if my uncle is going to come to this gathering. I hope so because I loved him. He was like the life of the party. He was funny. He was artistic. He played the guitar. He could listen to something and just play it on the piano. I really enjoyed him a lot and then he was you know what people might stereotype is rednecky. And, you know, in contrast to the Asian family, it was really fun. He was like, the guy that was shooting guns and had a big four wheel drive. And it was kind of inappropriate. And, but I thought he was hilarious. I really liked my uncle a lot. And so my, I remember, it was like Easter, and he was coming over. And I think he was still married Maybe. Or maybe he was with a girlfriend, I don't remember. But my mom got all irritated. And they got into this huge brawl. I had gone to the bathroom, I came back my uncle's gun. And I swear, we did not see him for like 10 years. I think I was in college before he came back again. And I remember writing him letters and just, you know, saying it's not my beef, you know, I hope that we can still get together and him and I had an issue. But I wrote these letters to him. And then we had a conversation, and we ended up both crying and, and then we were, we'd be back in each other's good graces. And I thought, wow, that is really powerful. Communication is so important, but you have to have both parties got to be willing to participate in a healthy manner. No one was yelling at each other, we did get to say how we felt hurt or wronged. Because isn't that always the reason for the estrangement, someone feels wronged or hurt or something like that. But we would come back together, him and my mom, no chance. I don't think my mom talked to him for probably 15 years, it was a long time. And then we got a we had a good family friend. And I think he reached out to either my mom or one of my aunts, I can't remember and said, your you know, my uncle was living with him. And he had come back because he had terminal brain tumor, brain cancer. And I was so sad, but I had been talking to him. So I was really sad. But I didn't feel the guilt. I think so then my mom can muster up enough forgiveness to hang out with him. And for I think it was a year or two, I can't remember exactly. He was back in our lives again, you know, and he was coming to family functions, because he couldn't come to family functions. If my mother didn't want him there, you know, so he wouldn't get invited. And now that he's dying, we're all coming back together. And I remember think thinking What a tragic waste of time. Back then, I did think that, and I was a little bit angry. You know, and I think those are all parts of the grief of knowing that someone that you love is going to die. And there's nothing you can do about it. But I will say the last couple years when he was coming back to the groups, it was really beautiful. And when I was married to my first husband, we had a gathering at my house. And everybody showed up. Even my mom and dad who were not getting along, there's a strange moment there who they did manage to buckle up and behave themselves. And I remember my uncle sitting on the patio, and he had a guitar, which he didn't know where it was at the time. And his mind was starting to go because the tumor was you know, affecting his memory, speech, thoughts, everything. In addition to him being in a lot of pain. And he he used my guitar and he started teaching me how to do Travis picking, which I thought was amazing. If he can barely function, but he can Travis pick on the guitar, which I still can't do to this day. And it was just really sweet. That was like my last memory of him. And then after that he declined. And then he was kind of in and out of coma states, you know, unconscious. And he died at my mom's house in her living room actually, because she had brought in a bed and brought in hospice and she took care of them during those two years. She would take him to all of his appointments and we would hear about how terrible it was that she was caring for him but wasn't mine. You know, it wasn't mine that was between them that was there. Making peace and I don't know if she ever did maybe she felt that was her? Was it penance for the years of not to I don't know, I'll never know. But I remember thinking God, you know, what? A damn waste of time and I didn't want that to happen in my life, especially to people I love. And as I get older, I also know that sometimes we just can't do it. And it's okay. It is what it is. And there's this level of acceptance in it. That I think, is a lot of work because I think being estranged really affects everybody, even the person that's saying, I don't want you here anymore. Yes, there's got to be work that's got to be done. I mean, if there's not that acceptance, I think there's still pain. Yes, that goes on, even when we're estranged. And the cool thing about that story is after my uncle had passed away, so he was involved in drugs and alcohol to on and off throughout his life, which was so funny, because my family never talked about alcoholism or any of that. But they would just say, Oh, he just can't get it together. Some people just can't get the good breaks, never wasn't mentioned that maybe he had an addiction issue. Until I got into LA. Like many years later, I thought, wow, we have this elephant in the room. And we never looked at it that way, just that he was just this poor loser was kind of how he was looked at. And I don't know if everybody looked at it that way. But that was my interpretation of it. And so what was beautiful, was after his funeral, well, there was no funeral, which was insane. And his son that he loved so much, his wife when they had divorced, made it so he could not see his son anymore. And I honestly think that's what just crushed him. And of course, he didn't do the work. It doesn't mean that it was her fault by any means. But I think that was the event that crushed him. And then he went on probably more of an alcoholic binge, because there was a few years before he came back to us with his brain tumor that we hadn't seen him. And so there wasn't a funeral. But I had a celebration of life at my house. And people wrote these amazing things in these cards about him, mostly, he worked at the City of LA. And they had written these beautiful things, and I had always wanted to give them to his son. And I've moved so much, and I can't find them. And that's it hurts my heart that I don't know, they must have gotten thrown out accidentally or something. But I always wanted to give him to his son if I ever got in touch with him. Which, by the way, 23andme We have had some chats, but we haven't been able to and we live in the same county now even. But we haven't been able to keep in contact for whatever reason, timing, you know, I'm leaving it up to the universe. I did open the door, he seemed not like he wanted to meet, but he did, you know, interact through this email through the site. Anyway, going down a rabbit hole, after he had passed away after we had had his celebration of life, of which I played the guitar in his honor, which those poor people listening. But anyway, I think it was like a month later. And I don't even know how it got to me. But a woman that was a friend of his then girlfriend, got the guitar back to me. And just said, I, your uncle really wanted you to have this guitar. What's the big deal? That was the same guitar he used to play when I was a child. And like, it was so soothing and healing for me that he would play and the whole house would be bumping, and I would lay down I remember there were a few instances at his house in particular where he'd be sitting on the carpet just playing. And I would just lay down in front of him and listen to the music because it was so soothing. And so healing. I didn't even know back then what what I was getting, but I just loved it. I would follow him around and go. Uncle, are you going to play the guitar? Uncle? Are you going to play the guitar? So he gave me it came back to me by these weird ways that I don't even remember. And I opened the case and there was a letter from the woman that had gotten it to me and she said, you know is basically your uncle loved this guitar. He always talked about you and he wanted you to have it and it just felt right that you get it. And somehow I feel like she went to I I can't remember if this was snippets that I had heard about the guitar because I remember when he came back to a sick, I had asked where's your guitar and he's like, I lost it. You know, I lost it. And I think someone had mentioned that he had lost it in like a drug deal or maybe something. And so this person got it back to me through I don't even know but I think oh, that was so like I still have the guitar to this day and I go I actually let my daughter use it because she is talented, and I'm not. But we keep and it's not that big of a deal. It's not a very expensive guitar, but emotionally, it's got so much, you know, attachment for me that it was the symbol of hope it was a symbol of healing, it was a symbol of peace and comfort. So we just keep patching it up. And every year I take it to the guitar plays, and they, you know, they keep it together. And it works. And it sounds great. But that's my that's my story, my estrangement story. And I do hope one day that his son and I get a chance to meet and or at least that I can tell him, you know, your dad wasn't perfect, but he definitely loved you.

That would be sweet. That would be super special, if that were able to happen. But all in due time. Yeah, it's not ready to, you know, to go there. For sure, ready to accept whatever he may feel? Or whatever words you're gonna say like, they have to be ready and so may not be ready right now. But why was there no funeral. Like what happened? I cannot remember. Like nothing.

I think by that time, my uncle was pretty much he was pretty much estranged from everybody. You know, I think. And I didn't understand that then. But after, you know, being in the allanon program, I realized he'd probably cut a lot of ties. A lot of people hadn't talked to him in a long time. And they just didn't know. What we did do was we did have him cremated. And my mom and I flew his ashes to Idaho where he lived for a period of time. He loved it up there. And I did go visit him up there. And we stood on the Snake River, I remembered where he was living at the time, and where we use where he took us to go fishing. And he would always say he loved it there. And he was probably the happiest when he was there. Although until you were really work on your demons, they don't go away. And so we we put his ashes in the river there. That was really beautiful.

Okay, that is beautiful. That is beautiful. That's beautiful. I want happiness and joy for people, even with whatever people go on. I wish closure and just that some recognition for them that they're not forgotten. And I'm so happy that you didn't forget him. You know, whatever. Like you said, whatever had happened. And, you know, the estrangement goes two ways, and people have demons and you know, so forth and so on. But I know for me personally, like, it's super important that people are not forgotten, or discarded, or I guess even abandoned. I think it feels a little bit like abandonment, and with estrangement, and so that you're able to do that is just, that's awesome. Yeah.

And it's such a fine line. You know, because there's codependency and there's forgiveness, and there's trauma work, and there's healing, and sometimes it's just too big. You know, but it begins within us. I mean, it really does. If, if I keep looking for other people to change to be the way I want them to, it's narcissistic, a little bit like, well, what's my parts? You know, what is my part in this and hopefully, I can heal that to get to a place of even healthy acceptance, you know, detach with love, as opposed to putting up a wall. Yeah, we don't need to throw people out. We can still love them, but we don't need to be in their space. And I just I'm not saying that there is a right or wrong way. This is just estrangement is estrangement. Sometimes it's needed, sometimes it's necessary, and sometimes it can be healed, you know, but like we said in our forgiveness podcast that forgiveness doesn't mean you necessarily have to bring someone back into your life. forgiveness doesn't mean that it has to be the way that it was. Forgiveness means that we have made peace with that in our own hearts in our own lives so that we don't feel dragged down by that anchor anymore. And it's interesting because with people that I've done that with, I can be around them but in small doses in small doses, But some people might be physically abusive, there's no way. There's no way

Oh, no, there's no way. But okay, can you give an example of a situation with someone that you were, you know, like that has led you to go? I can put just as small doses, like, what what was the situation? What was what happened that was so that caused that estrangement is I'm just trying to I'm just trying to I, you know, I don't know, try to figure for one of my siblings, I could go, you know, whatever, I can meet you where you are, like, I don't have a problem with you. I mean, I, there are some problems, like I know who you are. And I can just, whatever, let it go. We don't have to push things to, you know, the level while I'm constantly testing you and putting you in a situation where you go, Uh huh. See, there it is, again, you did it and I knew you were going to do it. Like, I'm not trying to set them up like I I'll meet them where they are, we can have events and get together. And you know, just chit chat, I won't tell them every detail about my life. Because there was always that fear of like, you're going to turn on me. And that you don't fully get why this strange from you. And that's okay, but I can have a conversation with you. But then with the other one, there's like, Oh, heck no way. New, new, new new way, I can't even do a small dose, I can't do anything with them. They have to be completely, you know, cut off. So, but you talk of it, where you can like you've been able to

I also said sometimes you can't. I also said sometimes you just can't. Yeah, that's why I don't think there's a right or wrong,

or you can to see if there's a hope is there. Like okay, in that situation, I guess I could I could do that. Just trying to gauge Am I being I don't

know, I always think about my mom, because my mom and I have had a very strange relationship since I was born. And I really have had to work on that relationship. And there have been so many times throughout our relationship that I have been estranged from her for prolonged periods of time, maybe a year or more, I just could not have any contact with her because it was too painful, basically. Yet, I'd always come back because she'd always be at a family function. And I didn't have any tools. And I remember early on, I'd be limping through it. And it would just be, I'd be so sick. I mean, I was sick. I know she was there, I hadn't done any work on myself. So I would have major anxiety, my heart would be beating, my mouth would be dry. And this is just to see my mother. And it was just so painful. I hated feeling like that. Anytime I was around her, I hated it. So years and years and years, that's when I started doing the work, I thought I need to talk to a therapist, I need to talk to a shaman, I need to talk to a hypnotist. I don't care, I'll go anywhere, you know, if it feels right in my heart, I'll do it. I don't have any lines. I think I gotta get out of the box. And so but it's taken decades. And what has happened is as that wall I had with her has slowly gone down. It has also gone down with other people in my life, you know, it isn't just that person because I'm changing. And so when I change, my life starts to change, you know, when the what is it when they observe when the observer changes, so does the observed. That's like a scientific thing I've heard. But it's true. Like when I start changing my world changes because my perspective has changed my belief system has changed my views on things have changed not just in my head but somatically as well. And you know my mom and I we don't have the greatest relationship and and I still feel those polls like I should do more for her. I'm not there enough for her. And I have to remind myself No, I don't have to catch myself on fire to keep her warm. I can be kind and loving it increments, I can do moments, that's about all I can do, or moments I can't. I can't do a lot, which I do get sad about that there is a sadness that we always hope that you know, the people we love, we can just have this easy, flowing relationship. And we don't. And that's just the way it is. And I hate to say this, because I hate to sound self righteous, or to put blame, but the woman hasn't done any work. You know, she really hasn't. And as much work as I've done, I can only shift so much like, I mean, I'm still learning and anything can happen. And I'm always open for the possibility. But she just recently, like a year ago, had a really bad car accident. And it's amazing that she walked away unscathed. But she did, but emotionally, she's like, it triggered all of her traumas throughout her entire life. And I suggested, you know, seeing a trauma therapist that does somatic work, because it has helped me so much. And I found one in her neighborhood, I connected her with the woman, she went and had maybe one or two sessions, and then she didn't want to go anymore. And I can't force it to happen. But she tried. I see she tried, but she just couldn't do it. So I understand, you know, I get it, like some things are just too big for us to bear. We're human, and it's just too heavy. And I have to have loving compassion for and I do, I can't even imagine being her and how big that must feel it must be like standing under a waterfall with your mouth open. I mean, it's just got to be way too much. So she does what she can do, I do what I can do. And I love her. I care about her, and I do what I can do. From a distance mostly. She's lonely, and I just can't be her companion. She's very lonely. And she's, she's created so much estrangement in her life. And on one hand, you know, the old paternalistic support says, well, she needs to fucking do something about it. And she needs to go be accountable, and she needs to get help. And then the maternal side says, but she can't, you know, and that's, she's doing the best she can and I can just love her where she's at. Which means that all my expectations and ideas of how I want it to be can't be. And I have to accept that and be okay with it.

Yes, yes,

she we're doing the best we can with what we have in this moment. And so I just saw her yesterday, and I can sit with her for about five minutes. And she draws me into the drama. And she like blurted out to me about something with her car accident in the attorneys. And I just said, Yeah, I remember you telling me that. I don't want to hear it. You know, I see her suck other people in the family into this like hour long vomit session. And I think you should be paying somebody for that. And you don't even need to you have Medicare or whatever, like, go get help. That's not okay. But I will say I don't think anybody has told her. It's not okay for you to do this. You need to go see a therapist. I don't know why maybe I need to. I've never said that. But just like talking about it. I'm thinking, wow, nobody has ever said that to her. You know, instead, we just kind of avoid her. I'm maybe I'm gonna think about saying that, you know, and there's power in processing. Like right now I'm telling a story, and I am processing right here right now. And that's when solutions come up. You know, I think that's why therapy works. I think that's why hypnosis works. I think that's why somatic training and trauma work works because we get a safe environment to talk about it. And we come up with our own answers, we have the answers.

We can if we are willing to grasp them. What is can you explain somatic work?

This is my understanding. So I am not here to be a reference. But the idea is when we have emotional trauma, which anything that is extreme in our emotional body. It gets stuck. It gets stuck in the actual physical body. So it it somatic work takes it beyond talking about it. So there's talk therapy, you know, CBT what is it? Behavior, behavioral therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy. There's all those things, which are fine because the mind needs training to I don't have anything against it, but it's only a piece of healing is what in my experience what I've gone through, because also that emotion gets stuck in the body. And we know this because we have patterns. If we get into a situation, even though we are not physically threatened, we may have a panic attack, which means our heartbeats, our mouth gets dry, and there's nothing really going on. Because somatically, it's in our body, our body is reacting physically, to a trauma to an extreme emotion, whether it's in front of us or not, the mind could just bring it right back up. And so if we don't work on this physical part, it just keeps happening. Because we can tell ourselves all day long, oh, I've worked through this, I've talked through this, I have solutions, and I have done this, but still, the body's going freaking out, right? That means there is a missing link. And so the somatic work that came to me, we barely talk in therapy, we get to the triggers, and then it's moving it out. It's physically physical movements that help us to move that trauma out of the body. So it's very different than just talking about it. Even it's very different than hypnosis, except the hypnosis that I work with people is actually has a somatic component that I didn't even know because I was doing that in 2007, where somatic therapy I had never heard of, but it is happening. So there has to be an engagement of going through this emotional state of extreme feeling. And there has to be a way to move it out of the body. You can't just talk your way out of it. I don't believe that. And so the somatic piece is, I feel very important, otherwise, you just keep bumping up against that wall. And I don't think talk therapists have the tools to move it out in that way,

right? Yeah, they wouldn't have that training of the Yeah, do that. If someone has had their baggage, and they just, it's easier for them to keep loading up their, their baggage, their bag of baggage, and to hold on to that tightly. And that is all that they know how to do. And when things get rougher tougher, they just tried to maybe shove it a little bit deeper, but they just keep holding on to that baggage. And to the point where it feels like it has become another part, you know, an appendage, if you will. And sometimes it's easier. I mean, this is just my belief, I'm not a therapist or anything, but I just believe that it's easier for them to hold on to that anger, sadness, stress, trauma, whatever, it's just easier for them to squeeze tighter than to let go. Because all that they know, all that they've been kind of trained to do, or the way that they have soothed themselves has been to just shove it deeper, just keep shoving it deeper and just hold on tighter. And I do recognize that it's hard, it's hard for them to they don't know any other way. They don't know any other way of being, if they've gone that long with that drama, this is their way of life. So to talk to people of, you know, lightness of being and release and being free. That's scary, because they may not know how to deal with that freedom, they may not know, they may not like that feeling of being free and not having constant stress, full thoughts and anxiety in their brains. Like they just don't they don't have the tools to operate in that life. The only way they know how to operate is when there is chaos and drama. So I do recognize that in you know some people, right? And I can say, Okay, I can't change you like, yeah, life would be so much better, so much easier if you just

did this, like if you just just did a, b and c like, look how it's helped me like it can help you too. But

then I'm not saying that there's no time. And like you can't teach an old dog new tricks. You can try absolutely everyone and anyone should try put that effort. But we do have to recognize that and we do have to accept that.

And I think that everything you just said there. We have to ask ourselves those exact questions and ask are we holding are we shoving are we unwilling are we not used? Feeling free. And I believe that when we ask ourselves those and work on that, we have less concerned about others. We quit trying to figure them out, we quit trying to offer them solutions. Yeah, because we're working on ourselves. I mean, I'm a full time job. And magically, when I'm working on that, keeping within my hula hoop, other people kind of softened to, because they're tired of being told, or, you know, if even when I would walk around with an energy of smugness, I think people felt it. You know, and I have to look at myself and forgive myself for that, because my self righteousness was still embedded in my own in the ability to be aware of my holding the trauma and shoving it down and not being willing to be free, and to free to look at all of it. So I think everything you said there was so right on, and I kept thinking, those are the things I gotta keep asking myself, Who cares what everybody else is doing. I have enough shit right here in my three foot Hulu, I mean, there is enough here to work on for a lifetime. I don't need to work on anybody else's stuff.

I work a lot with children.

And you can tell parents come at this with love, they want to protect their child, they want the best for their child, they will give and do everything for their child. But when you say Well, the one thing you need to give them is independence. And they will balk. They're like, well, they're just three, like what kind of independent, like they can't do anything. But you will be amazed at what a three year old is fully capable of doing. And when they get a little inkling of that independence, you will hear them say, I want to do it myself. And some parents hear that and they at three years old, they're fearing my child is rejecting me, then they go into overdrive of, I will, I'll just I'll do everything, and I'll buy them everything. And I'll you know, just to make sure that there's no rejection. But independence in small children is not a horrible, terrible thing. And it, yes, they will make mistakes. Because they are three, okay, three, and four, and five and six, they are growing, and they are learning. And we can give them the tools to communicate to express to recover, versus just implanting them the same patterns that have been implanted in ourselves. And, but it's easier to do that than to put your hands by your side. But, you know, we have to take into account that the child is going to need some extra time, build that time in to allow them to do what they need to do, versus you the adult pushing it right to the limit and just going to whatever I can just, I'll just grab, you grab the shoes, throw you in the car, and let's go, like, I'll get the shoes on you when we get to X, Y and Z. But that's a key thing. That's a key moment of independence for them for them to be able to tie their shoes, for them to be able to pick out their own clothes for them to be able to walk to the car to get in to get themselves in. That is all very important. But we fail to recognize that to see that because we're kind of so as adult, we're so past that. And we're just like this is just so much easier. And they're they it out of love my I love my child, I love them. I want to I don't want any harm to come to them. And I don't want them to suffer like I suffered. And I don't want them to have to deal with whatever I had to deal with. So I'm just going to do all of these things. But then, you know, at some point that will there will be some conflict, the child will either acquiesce and just be like, Whatever, I'll just do whatever you tell me to do, because it's just easier that way.

And that makes you codependence kicks in

and then they don't know what makes them happy. They've never developed their inner happiness, because it's all been about you. While do this to make mommy happy. I'll do this to make daddy happy. I'll do this to make the teacher happy. I'll do this to make my friends happy. And they have no inner compass of what they like and don't like they're just people pleasers. That's what they are So,

which can lead right into estrangement? Because sometimes estrangement is one person telling another person what they need to do, because they love them so much. And they don't give them any freedom to do what they need to do. And let things lie that acceptance pieces like crew out the window, we love you so much. And in order for me not to be so burdened, I need you to do this and this and this. And this, it's really selfish. It is,

it is, because it's all about, you don't want that anxiety. So if you just do this, I won't be anxious. And but then they don't do that. Right? And then it's a rejection. And then you're not talking to the other person going. Okay, I understand this, you know, horrible thing has just happened to you. How do you feel about it? What are your feelings? Like? What, what are you thinking? How do you want to deal with it? Versus Well, if you would have just done what I told you to do, in this situation in the first place.

So which is not

a safe environment to do? No, it's not. But because the person is like, I love you, and I'm trying to help you, and I'm telling you what to do. And that's just kind of the way that we as a, as a society are built and programmed and kind of told, you know, to do that, that's the best thing. Parents know best.

And that's why these loving people need to look at their own shit. Yeah,

they do need to look at their own. And they don't, and they won't. Because from maybe from a generational standpoint, that's just not what people did. You don't want air out your dirty laundry, you don't like you have to get past that first. Like, if I'm talking to a therapist, I'm telling them, although, you know, horrible thing. And once you say it, you can't take it back. And you have to face it. It was luggage, it was stuff that you stuffed into your baggage, and it was you were holding it there, but nobody saw it. And so you were able to present whatever you want to present in your own mind. But once you do, you hang it out, whether it's to a therapist, to a friend to whatever, you can't unsee it, you can't do it. And

it's the best gift

thing isn't to undo, but just move on to let it go and move on. But people get stuck, they can't move on. Because all the time that it took to build up those bad habits all that time all of those years to be that person. You're not is that going to happen is that going to be undone in one session, is that going to be undone in two sessions, it's not going to be undone with one event, it it's a build up the same amount of time that it took for you to build up to get where you are is going to take you that same amount of time to undo and get to the new you are the new phase in your life or whoever that new being that's experiencing new things is going to be it's going to take time because you're going to need you know, conversations experiences, introspective, you know, analysis, you're going to need all of that to get to a new point. But people can't awareness quick fix, like okay, if I give this to you, like you're gonna fix it, right?

That's right. Well, that's not always the therapist

does they don't you have to be wanting to fix it can do you want to fix it? You know, are you willing to go there to fix it? And it can be pretty scary. Acknowledging and facing that. Yeah, you're not perfect. Yeah, you did some things. You may have done it out of love. I understand that. That's, you know, that's, I get it. But you did do it. Right. You did yell you did scream and maybe you did get physically abusive. And people don't want to face that in themselves because they're like, Oh, I do love you. And but it's hard right? It's hard for us the person on the other end to go did you really love me like that's a funny way to show love. Ya know about that?

Yep. And shame loves silence. It grows and builds in silence. And quick fixes are what America is all about that just look at Amazon.

Yes. So

but I think it's just there's a there's another component in my mind to about timing and how to work on these things. You know that this the energetic the spiritual, the universal component, there's always that which I think gets denied. I'd and so it's all of my will, you know, self will run riot. I mean, we can only do so much, it's not always of us. I think of that all the time, we aren't even in charge of digesting our food or how fast our hairs, hair and nails grow. We aren't that much in charge of things we think we are. But we're not. We're not. When a baby's as a mom, when the baby's growing in our belly, we are not in charge of how that baby's going to grow. We do not know if it's going to come out healthy, we do not know we are not in charge of so much in our lives. And I think that's a big piece too. There's a lot of control going on in this society. It's all on us. It's everything we do and say and feel and believe. And I think that's a part. Absolutely. But there's also the bigger parts. I mean, think of people that have come into our lives, I didn't know that that I didn't call for that person. I didn't know that person was going to come out of the ethers and we were going to end up being best friends or hate each other or, you know, yesterday I had a rocket, my windshields shattered the whole thing. I wasn't in control of any of that I'm just driving down the street. So there are too many things in this world that we're not in control of either. And I think when we can apply that well when I am not going to say we are they are you when I can apply that to my own relationships and estrangement. It gives me peace. And it helps me to see things from another perspective, usually forgiving myself, loving myself enough. All the things that you have been speaking of, I think those are the things I need to tell myself, you know, not, I'm done figuring other people out, although my mind has an ugly habit of trying, I really have to ask myself those questions. You know, when I deal with estranged people in my life, and there are other people that aren't even family members, it could be coworkers, it could be friendships that I had for a long time are now not speaking, you know, what was my part and have I come to a place where I can peacefully engage, have I come to a place where I can still detach with love, I can still love this person and not need to interact. And I have two ex husbands that I've had plenty of practice with because I can't estranged them, because I have a daughter that I need to raise with them. So I mean, I'm constantly getting ground up and spit out on this one. But you know, I think it, it can work. I think that we have to just, I have to just look at myself, I have to know myself, I have to understand myself, I have to forgive myself, I have to do give myself grace. And then things tend to turn around. But I pray. And I hope that everybody has grace this holiday season for themselves. That would be my biggest wish is that everybody feel Grace within themselves feel compassion within themselves, give themselves a break. Stop self judgment, stop that inner critic. And then see what happens. Like just go there. Just go there and not have any expectations of what anybody else is going to do or say. But if you love yourself so much, it's like armor. Yeah, and I think things change. I think when people are in the environment of people that love themselves. There's like a different feel. Yes. So that's what I am going to say. And that's how I'm going to be complete, I guess in this discussion today. That's good. How about you?

I just, I don't know, I don't know. You're right. People do need to detach with love, and then have compassion and stop self judgment. Like all of those words, and I believe it.

So have you heard the Four Agreements?

I have tried to read The Four Agreements. I have like three copies of that book because so many people have given it to me and I couldn't get through it. I've tried I've tried it I've talked to somebody else. I was like, tried to I really wanted to but I just didn't gel for me so I don't know. But go ahead.

I was just thinking the Four Agreements might be a good little recipe. Okay, but do you have one of them is just don't take anything personal was the one that stood out to me. And everybody's doing the best they can I can't remember all four. I'd have to look at I don't want to misquote it right now in this moment, but It was just the energy of that book that was coming up. It I, when I read it, I felt like it was armor, you know, especially just don't take anything personally, we take these things personally because someone hits our wounds that already exists. Really?

Yes, absolutely true. And for me that was recognizing like, okay, yeah, I am wounded. And I am taking it personally. And I don't have to, and I can let it go. And I can stop putting myself in a situation where they're gonna keep pushing that button or, you know, pushing on that wound. So and there are moments where I can be really strong and just be like, You know what, charity, you are strong charity, you are better than this charity. You can, you can do this, you can get through it, you can don't let it worry. Sometimes I can do that. And it feels awesome. When I do and it clicks. And it feels natural. And it's not for us. And it's like I am in that moment, and I believe it. And then there are moments where I'm just saying those words and they are empty.

Yeah, like all of us.

Just say, I just want to go and cry. God,

yeah, yes.

All right. Well, there you go. Holiday holidays are coming upon this. Let us not let it be a tragic waste of time, you have something that you want to say something to someone out of love, like you really love this person, and you want them to know that you love them, and not give them an ultimatum of, I will love you if you do XY and Z. Or if you can show to me that you can be a better person, then I'll tell you I love if you just love that person, just say that you love them, and then just let it go and move on. Don't let it you do have control over whether you will have regret. You do have control over those things. And you have to think about if this person were to kick over today. Did they know that you love them? Did you say it to them? And were you able to say whatever you needed to say? Like every opportunity that you have, you know, every gathering every moment that you get together with with people, just be honest, be your honest, self?

Yes. And that nothing is a waste of time. Exactly. It's not there isn't waste of time. If you're in a situation, it doesn't ever have to be wasted, because you will get something out of it. You're always getting something out of it. Everywhere we go to be

changing that person. You know, like you said, we don't have to that's not just whatever, just say what you need to say. Think about the things that you like, if you are at their funeral. Think about what were those things that you wanted to say to that

person. And you have to just say you are in control. You can control that you can say those

things. Say it then don't wait until after words because that's it. That's without conversation. That's

any expectations, without any expectations. Exactly that you can't say it expecting the response that you have in your mind.

Exactly. Yeah, no. Because then you're setting yourself up for failure.

Yeah, don't do that. And a wise woman told me something once she said do something kind for somebody today. Leave them alone.

Did one Yeah. And with that? All right. Just let it go.

All right. Happy holidays.

Happy holidays, everyone.

Yay.

Thank you for listening to being effing honest with your hosts, Jennifer Wong and charity Rodriguez. Subscribe to our show wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you have a suggestion, question or topic you want us to talk about, connect with us at www being effing honest.com And until next time, we hope you're always being effing honest