Child Assessment - Really? Why would you want to label your child?

Hello, and welcome to Our Podcast being effing honest. I'm Jennifer Wong. And I'm Charity Rodriguez. And we invite you into our conversations of everyday issues experienced by everyday people with honesty, humor and authenticity. Our hope is to bring people together and community by creating safe environments of non judgement. And we know this can be tough. So we will go ahead and go first. So what is the topic that we are going to be discussing today? Oh, today is assessments. And this is assessments for your children? What is it mean? Why do we have it? Why do we do it? Is it necessary? Does everybody have to do it? We're just going to talk from our experiences and go from there. Okay. All right. And I know that you have been doing a little bit of research I, the only research I have would be the experience I have with my own child. So I'm hoping today, I can ask you some questions. And you can enlighten me and explain a little bit more to me, because I do have a 10 year old coming up through the ranks that she may need this. Okay, Yeah, that's fine. Let's roll. Well, we were talking before about assessments, and we were talking about your 10 year old actually. And so that's why it was like, oh, yeah, like I could talk about this other day. Because we've gone through it with my two teens. And it's been a long and arduous process. It's one you have to kind of just dive in and you don't know what you're diving into. And we learned a lot. Some of it was good. Some of it was bad. But then, I mean, we're not completely out of it. But after we've gone through the initial process of this is our new reality. It was interesting, looking at other parents, and them being in the same boat, and then asking the same kind of questions we were asking, this is just my husband and I talking because at the time, we didn't have anybody to talk to we didn't have anyone to turn to and go. What do you think? What do you think? Right? And now I hear a lot more people talking about it, you know, just to the public or to themselves or with others? So, yeah, but okay, what do you want to know? What did you what? So what made you decide that your children needed? Oh, to be assessed, okay, like, what made you think, Oh, my gosh, I need to look into this subject. Okay, that one, we had our daughter first, and we were noticing behaviors, or that were just kind of exhausting us. And I'm a reader. So I read all of these parenting books and how to and, you know, I'm talking to her pediatrician, and I'm like, I just, it should not be this exhausting. Like, is this supposed to be this exhausted? Like, this parenting thing is really exhausting. Because we're dealing with these behaviors and these things that we're just like, so exhausting. I'm just tired, and I'm doing everything that the books are telling me to do. And she's still falling apart. Like she just completely falls apart at the simplest things. Things that to me are not they don't want enough reason to fall apart at this volcanic level. You know, and she wasn't being mean, like, it wasn't that she was being, you know, a brat. It was just I could tell that she was in pain. Kind of like emotionally in pain like things were just breaking her down and I couldn't figure out the why. So and when you were saying exhausting what was exhausting It just everything every day, every any little thing. Just about it? getting through your day was exhausting. Yeah, having kids is exhausting. Yes, kids are a lot of emotion, a lot of action, a lot of motion a lot of you know everything. But this seemed and you know, maybe I was like looking at the TV shows a little too much going. Why are they doing that? Why that's not how my child is doing that my child is you know, are at the playground, right? There's a child doing things and I see a reaction to you know, falling down and scraping they're knee or something. It's a two or three but my child's at nine or 10. You know, When she would scrape her knee or was it related specifically to schoolwork? Schoolwork took on a whole nother turn that was more about us being constantly frustrated with her. And I didn't know like, do you just don't get this? Are we not presenting this properly? Are we just bad teachers that good or bad guiders we don't know what your teacher is telling you. And we're telling you the opposite of what your teachers telling you. And that's making you frustrated. She loved. She was a curious child. And I was afraid of the constant, daily nightly battles of homework, we're going to diminish that love, we're going to take away the joy of school and learning and take away that curiosity, which is like, No, you should always be curious, you should always ask questions you should always, you know, just want to learn more. And I wanted learning to be joyful. I want it learning to be exciting. You know, for her, but so when you were you were considering the assessment, I heard you say it was exhausting. So it wasn't just the relate the relation to academics, it was It was everything because, okay, in like the third or fourth grade, we got confirmation from the teacher that you know.... because she was..., that everyone was like, Oh, she's such a nice child. She's so sweet. She's so kind. She's so wonderful. But and she was she was all of those things. And a little more that we were seeing at home. And we were just like, Is anyone else seeing this? Like, is she only behaving this way at home? Or does she do this also at school? Because or, you know, which is the only place that she spent a major amount of time outside of the house, right? She's either at school, or she's at home with us. So there wasn't anywhere else for to, you know, go. And we're, you know, you talk to the pediatricians and they're like, Oh, she's fine. She's, you know, the proper developmental, you know, trajectory and go, Oh, she's in the good percentage. Yeah, everything's just fantastic. So I was like, Okay, I'm not getting anywhere with you. So fine. We went in for a parent teacher conference. And we could tell the teacher was really nervous. She was kind of struggling to say something, and we're just like, what, you know, like, what, what do you what is it like, are her grades? Well, yeah, no, she's a lovely child. And yeah, her grades are, are fine. And we're like, okay, but then she just blurted out, like, I just, I'm not, you know, I can't diagnose, but I think you might want to get her tested for ADHD. And when she said that, I know her reaction. I know, she was waiting for us to just throw our arms up and say, How dare you? Oh, my goodness, you know, my child does not have ADHD, like, you know, but my husband and I, like we literally both looked at each other. And it was like, high five. Yes. Finally, like, not just us. And we didn't just say yes, we thought so too. But every time we were kind of trying to say that everyone was like, No, why would you want to label your child that way? And we weren't trying to label her we were just like, something is not. Right. Or it's not something is different here. So we needed some words to help her. And that was that was the floodgates been opened, and we could finally talk to the teacher. And she now was being more more forthcoming with behavior that she was noticing in the classroom. And because again, she's a lovely girl. She is she's very sweet. But she likes to talk a lot. And she would just be talking and talking and talking and talking to the teacher. When the teacher is trying to like, Okay, it's time for you to get back to your work. Oh, yes. Okay. Okay. Okay. She'd go back for a little bit. And then, you know, be back at let's talk some more teacher. And it's like, no, do you need to focus on your work? She would catch her. Everyone's doing a test and everyone's head is down. They're writing. And our daughter's out there looking out the window. She would just, she would watch her for a while see, like, oh, maybe she just saw a butterfly or a bird and then she'll know. She just...throughout the whole test would be looking out the window and it would have to be Hey, Suzie. Q Can you, you know, get back to your work? Oh, okay. Yes, yes, yes. And then she would do it for a little bit, and then she would look up and then she'd be back at the window or just looking anywhere, but where she needed to focus. There was constant prompting of, Do you need some help? Can I help you with anything? Do you need to go to the bathroom? You know, and she would need that extra time, she would do well on the questions that she answered. But then there will be a lot of questions that she didn't answer, because she wasn't able to get through the things in time. And it's so interesting that it was the teacher that brought it to your attention after going in seeing a doctor. And they didn't have an answer. So for my oldest daughter, she got diagnosed with ADHD, not because the teacher the teachers kept saying she was fine. And her grades were mediocre, but I saw her struggling. So I actually took her to the doctor and had her tested specifically for ADHD, just because I couldn't figure it out. So it's really nice that a teacher brought that to your attention. So would you say that was when you decided, I think we need to have her assessed? Well, we Yes, we did have her assessed. And when you went to the doctor and the doctor assess what did your doctor do? Like how, what was that assessment? It was like this big questionnaire that we had to fill out. A friend had to fill it out. And then we turned it in. And then I don't know, I did have an appointment where she was with a doctor for an hour, I think asking her questions and taking a test. And then it took a few weeks, and they came up with the results. And they're only there only remedy was to give her drugs.

Okay. Okay, yes. And so when I went back to the pediatrician and said, I want to get this, I want to get her tested. Or I was talking to her about my concern, she gave us this paper. And it was just, it was very like, Oh, here's this questionnaire, just fill it out and get back to me. And you know, then yes, we can. Here's the lowest dosage I can do. I can give her some medicine, you know, like you said, but that seemed a little too easy and too quick. I thought there was a little more to it, than just fill out this questionnaire. Like this is a child, and the docotor say's, Yeah, that's it. I was like, okay, but we felt at that time, she was too young for medicine. So we were putting off, we put off medicine for several years for like, two or three years. Because like third grade, we are like no but, okay, now we know. So we give her some more time to do things. And I read up on that. And we were asking the teacher to work with us to help put her at the front of the room. Don't put her at the back of the room, you're gonna have to say , Hey, did you get that? Did you understand what I said? You know, and, and or just go by her, don't just say it in passing. Everyone turn your page, your books to page 13. And she's sitting there, like, she was looking out the window, suddenly, all this movements happening around her. And she's like, okay, I guess we supposed to open up our books, but she missed the part where it was page 13. So she's like, where are you? You know, like, that was the kind of stuff that she was going through. But we also were open with her. And we would tell her like, you know, you need to talk to the teacher, you need to say, I missed that. Can you repeat that? Like it's okay to say that. And she was embarrassed about that. She didn't want to say that she didn't want to look like she didn't know what she was doing. It was easier and more enjoyable to just be looking out the window and get lost in your thoughts then like you know, to ask What are you doing? And of course, you know, when you're in that age group that what third, second, third grade, fourth grade, if you turn to your classmate, what page you know, suddenly you're talking, you're supposed to be reading everyone. Do your do your reading. So she didn't want to get in trouble like that. So it was I'm trying to think, I think it was the seventh grade was where we finally said, Let's do another testing. And, oh, they gave us the Okay. It was like sixth grade where we said okay, okay, this is just it's too much. Let's try this medicine. And I was before they gave us a medicine. But I was like, I haven't decided I'm going to do the medicine yet. I need to do my research. I want to know what all of the side effects are. I want to know, you know, everything before we decide so that we know how to monitor this, because I didn't want to just trust it to the doctor to say, oh, yeah, that's normal. No big deal. Keep going. And I like app. No, I wanted to know what our cut off, you know, sent them behavior was going to be so we did it. And it wasn't good. It was like the major thing that came up was The appetite suppressant. So she's not eating and all that. Well, that's not good. Like, I don't care about it. Like, you can't be this young, you're still growing. And you're not eating? Like, no, no, I should literally just be like, I'm not hungry. I'm fine. Yeah, just going about, and it kind of dulled her, her spirit and her energy. And yes, her energy was kind of wild and crazy before and we were all like, oh my gosh, but that was her spirit. That was her energy. That was her. And I didn't want that. I didn't want that. I didn't want to see her look like a zombie. And like, yeah, now she's being very just sitting there. You know, and very lethargic. So,

which is hard to why.

So we stopped that. Then I think maybe six months later, we tried again, with some different medicine. Again, the symptoms are the side effects to too much. So we Nope. I think it was like another year. And we gave her medicine. I don't remember I have to go back and look to see what that medicine was. But that year, and we gave her that medicine, and her.... It was her reaction of like, instead of dulling her and making her a zombie, she was like, oh, oh my gosh, like seeing things for the first time. Like, Oh, wow. Like she could see for the first time she could hear for the first time. And she was like, I want to do my homework. I want to do this. And she sat down and she got through all of her homework. And she loved it. And it was like more, give me more. Why did just I love this. So we're like, oh, how

old was she then? She was like 12 they she was like 12. Okay, so a little bit like in puberty? Yes. And she could communicate what was going on? Like, before she couldn't really communicate, right? It was like us putting words in her mouth. Are you feeling this? Are you feeling that that? You know, and she's like, okay, yeah, no, I don't know what that meant what you know. But now she was like, This is what I feel. I can I can do my homework. I feel really great. I'm not tired. You know, she was communicating to us. So then I thought, Okay, this is, this is good. This is the right time, instead of us just doing things to her. And she can't say anything. So yeah, after that we kept on that medicine that worked out. Well. She loves school, there wasn't a battle so much the battle had diminished. Like she could do so much on her own, she can go back and communicate to us what the teacher had told her so that we could put it you know, we weren't going against what the teacher was saying, because school is was totally different. Right? Like, oh, when we were growing up, they didn't care how you got to answer. It was just did you get the right answer? That was it. Did you get the right answer, right, move on. And now it was using an IB program. So you had to talk about the why two plus two equals four and the Y. What's IB? Oh, International Baccalaureate program, okay. And it's kind of like AP classes. Okay, so a lot of schools and this was a public charter school that had taken on and gotten the accreditation to be an International Baccalaureate school. And they pretty much follow the same kind of curriculum. And it's, like in middle school, this was middle school, elementary and middle school, you do a lot of project base projects. And that's how you do your lessons. Whereas once you hit high school, it's all you do projects, but it's a lot of writing, like you are writing and writing and writing for every single class. There's writing in elementary and but it's more you do a project to talk about and to explore, you know, whatever. So that was fun. And you can, whenever they were talking about something you could bring in a project to show your mastery of the subject. So, you know, whatever that may be in science, if it's in Math, if it's a creative thing, if it's a writing thing, you can do a project, you can write a paper, you can write a creative writing paper, you know, just stuff like that. So, so would you say that once the medicine helped her and she started wanting to do homework? Did it also change? The emotional outbursts that you'd mentioned early? Yes. Because she was not getting so frustrated. I mean, to see her just crying over the homework, and we're trying to help her. And we know the answer, right? Because we're like this, but she couldn't get to the answer. And we're like, we, you're, you're a very bright girl, you know, we're thinking this. We know you're bright, like you're talking to us about all sorts of things, and you're communicating all sorts of things. But you're falling apart at having to read this thing, or having to write this thing, or just filling out this worksheet like chess. I mean, she would just be devastated. Yeah, it's like, you should not be that broken down. And it shouldn't be a daily thing. And it shouldn't be all the time. And there was a lot less of that. And we also learned as parent, you can only go so far as the support the tutor, the teacher at home. And, and the other thing is, it gets so expensive, but it does, it is really cost prohibitive. And I think a lot about people that aren't at an income level that they can afford these things to assess their child in these ways. And that's why I wanted to go back to you know, did the school do the assessment? Did you have to go to outside private people to do the assessment, okay, so we have, for the most part always been in some kind of private or charter school education program. Because just like the, you know, ADHD and whatnot, or the other stuff aside, we knew our children were special. Like, we knew they were just a little bit different. And being in a coming from a biracial background, that was also a little bit different. Having a dad whose background is German, and a mom, who is Afro Latina, that's different. Having, you know, Spanish over here, German stuff going on over there, that's different, then they're just different children. Like, I could tell that they're different, you know, like, everybody's like, you know, look at the beautiful skyline, and our kids are my daughter's specifically with like, the rainbows and the unicorns and the mermaids and the fairies. And I'm like, Ooh, girl, okay, you know, the other day, like this fun for a little bit, but she was just doing writing that hard. And everybody else was like, Okay, time to go do something else. And she was really into that world. Of just, but she was also very happy. Like, she was just a happy go lucky kid. Sounds like, I kind of need her to be with other people that are like, all rainbows and unicorns, like, that's okay. Like, that's fine. I don't have any problem with that, if that's how the examples that you need to set up for her. Fine, go for it. But it was, I could see her frustration when people would be like, Okay, enough with mermaids, and enough with the sunshine? And, you know, the unicorns and she would like, it would, it's hard to kind of swallow that, and you're trying to hide that and not, you can just be free. So right, that I didn't want that I didn't want her to suppress who she was just for the sake of the teacher, you know, for the sake of the classroom, whatever. So we looked, we were we yeah, we just, we had the means. And that was just always our priority was we'll do what we need to do for the children will forego everything else for ourselves. But yeah, and you know, as long as we could afford it, and it was good, it was meeting our checklist of items, then we'll do it. So we the school did have some services available. But we opted to go private, because it was it took longer to go through the school. Like you have to get in the queue and you have to wait and when your number comes up, and then you then once you do it through the school, you get the IEP Individualized Education Program. And even though we were the one saying like yeah, let's do So we want to do this and we want to get that, you know, information, we didn't necessarily want that to be in the hands of the school just yet. We didn't want the school to use it, kind of like a weapon against our child, you know what I mean? Like, we didn't know what was going to come out of it. And, yes, we want it to know. But we also know that once you get labeled within the school system, then they start kind of, oh, you have an IEP, you that you fall through the cracks, the expectation of your achievement becomes a little bit lessened. And they would start purposefully, and purposely, you know, I don't know, whatever, their teachers, they just have all these children to go through. They're just like, roll, roll roll. We didn't want we wanted that record first. So that we could control the narrative of, and for our daughter, we didn't want the school, so cooling the narrative for her right. And so who did you go to? And I noticed in your notes, it says, Can I read it says assessing a child's abilities, the examiner administrates, a series of measures to determine how your child learns, as well as their ability to process information and formulate responses. These measures include verbal and visual test to examine verbal reasoning, nonverbal reasoning, and certain types of memory as well as the speed at which your child processes information and formulates responses. So who did you decide to? Who did you choose to do the first assessment with? Well, okay, first of all, before we got to that, like that was the added bonus of doing the assessment. Because what we actually then were noticing, we were looking to see like all of these things, and with all of my reading, it seemed like this is really indicative of a child that is on the spectrum. So yes, you may be a you have ADHD, but that's also part of being on the spectrum. Yes, you have these, the anxiety, that's also part of the specter, like, there were all these things. So we were just like, let's go and do this. And then when we went and met with the counselor, the psychologist, and it was through a referral. This was a private a private one. We picked them, they were local, they were right here, it was a woman. And she came highly recommended from other reading and resources from her from our doctor. She was also on our insurance plan. So it's just like, okay, yeah. All right. And we, we met with her, and we got a good vibe, like my husband. and I both felt like, okay, she's easy to talk to. And she's working with us, versus I'm, you know, the Ph. D. here, and you're just going to take whatever I say, as you know, the truth is, you're not going to ever question me because I know what I'm talking about. And she was not like that at all. She was like, we're in this together. Like, yeah, I have the PhD. I did all of this stuff. But I'm also a mother, I also have children, you know, about the same age, and I know exactly what you're talking about. So when we were expressing our concerns when we were you know, she wasn't like blowing us off or dismissing us. She was like, Yeah, that makes sense. I'd be thinking the same thing, too. So I was like, oh, okay, yeah. All right, let's do this. And then we learned about when you do the we did a psycho educational assessment, to learn how she can learn to learn how our daughter learned, so that we could help her, you know, learn, is she a visual learner? Is she auditory learner? You know, like, how was she receiving information? And but when we went and talked to her, they said, Yeah, we're going to get all that information. But we're also going to see if she's on the spectrum, we're also going to be able to diagnose anxiety, we're gonna be able to see depression, we're going to be able to see like, all of these things that were like, oh, let's do it. And that's what led to all of these other things, you know, coming out, that we would not have, you know, like the verbal and the test and all of that stuff. It was more like she on the spectrum. And then they're like, you know, what, before we get to that, did you know that she has trouble with cognitive, you know, her cognitive behavior is impaired. And this is how you can support her and this is what the teacher needs to do for her in the classroom. And these are some things that we were doing at home, but we weren't necessarily having the teachers do or how they interact with her. And so We were able to go, this is what we want you to do. And we have the paperwork, the assessment, to back up what we are asking you to do. Versus we think you need to do this. And they're like, We don't have to do that. I was like, Yes, you do. Because now we have this. And now we're ready to work with you with the IEP. And shape the IEP. Okay. So you basically took the assessment from the psychologist to this to the school, and then oh, yes, I see. And then they and they took it, they accept it, because it was it was legit. And but it was a psychologist. Yeah. Psychiatrists, oh, it was a psychiatrist. Okay. Name. And this was, as I'm always curious, like, where do you start? Well, it's, it's crazy. Because I was talking to my husband, I was like, Okay, if we didn't have the means to do this, if we didn't have the resources to go this private route, and just cut through all this other stuff, and just go straight to, there's a waiting list like you can't you go to the school, but it's a psychologist that they have at the school, and they have a lot of children that they are going through. And they have a process that they have to follow. Just because you're dealing with a school and it's legal and documents, very bureaucratic, very bureaucratic. So and they are then somewhat limited, because they are going through the school because they aren't going to be a bureaucratic means. So at some point, they could say, Yeah, I noticed this, we don't have the resources to help you with that. You got to figure that one out on your own. But kids still have to go to school, the next day, I'm still, you know, be dealing with stuff. And if you have a complaint, my understanding from other people that I've talked to, like, you can issue you can put that complaint forth, but until they have time to address it, or until something serious and heinous happens, like sure, you're just waiting, waiting, and waiting. And this is really good information, because I have I did this with my first daughter, but I didn't know where to go. And I didn't know which avenue to take. So I found that interesting that when went to the doctor and asked for, you know her to be assessed, they just did the ADHD, they didn't even say, hey, maybe we can do this. I think you said psycho educational assessment, it was never even Well, I had Kaiser, and they never even went any further with that. So the other thing, as a single mom, my 10 year old, I have been thinking that she's either on the spectrum or has some learning. And it isn't because her grades aren't good. Like, she has a photographic memory she can do really well academically, but oh my god, the anxiety is off the hook, she takes our family hostage. And so I had asked my husband, well, you know, we need mutual consent to have her see a psychiatrist or a psychologist. And his response is, there's nothing wrong with her, you're making a big deal out of nothing. So there, I'm stuck again. So this is, you know, it's good to hear that on this. And for you guys, you're on the same page. And so I it's just really good to hear the process. And it's really good to hear that it was helpful. And I think her my daughter's father is afraid that she's going to get labeled. And it's going to inhibit her ability to be have a normal childhood. But my whole thing is she's not having a normal childhood, because she's so full of anxiety, that she's not paying attention in class, she feels like she's behind. She's stressing her friends out. You know, like, if if she's stressing us out, she's stressing her friends out. And I get concerned that, you know, once they hit the hormonal stage, you know, pre middle school, middle school, that it's going to become even a bigger social hurdle for her. But so this is just good to hear the steps, you know, and I liked the idea about having the assessment already to take to the school and say this is what we need because I have another friend who's a single mom and she did all these assessments through the school and it was horrific the time and they just kept saying there's nothing wrong and their remedies were like so limited and really not effective. And so I guess she had to get an advocate. Yeah, that helped her and that has just been an ongoing Yeah, and not a fun journey. ality that is the reality. I totally, I understand. I know exactly what you're going through. I Yes. And I also was like, No, I'm not gonna let that happen to my kid. Like I don't like that was gonna be that was the frustrating thing. And I also like, oh my gosh, no, I just did not want our children. They're gonna be labeled like, whatever. But we weren't going to again, it was I guess, you know, I keep saying the word control, and not that I'm like controlling but we wanted, we need it to control that narrative, like, we understand my husband that we're nerds, we're total nerds, we're total Freaks and Geeks, like, I own that, I accept that. And it was that feeling of people not understanding us not getting us not fitting in, not, you know, being able to be our true selves. Like we can mask like, there was no bodies business, be you know, like, act like, you know, fake it till you make it kind of thing. Right? That's exogamous parents, I don't like doing that. And I do not want that for our children. I wanted them to know, we've got your back, we get you now we know. You know, if you like the unicorns, whatever we gotcha. Like it. Okay. So I just wanted to put that protective ring right around my kids so that you can you can scream, you can shout, you can do whatever. Because we got we got to you let the unicorns fine. We got you. We got you. And what a gift for those kids. Well, I mean, you guys did great. That's so sweet. It's carry because and I don't know if it's, you know, coming from a Latina background. I couldn't not go to my parents. Like when I'm looking at my kid going. Something's not right here. And they're like, why are you looking for trouble? Like they're fine. They're just playing. That's kids being kids. What's the problem? I'm like, okay, okay. Yeah, I guess I you know what? You can't deny a mother's intuition. Oh, no. And we were? No, you can't, because I somewhat feel vindicated. When we went to the doctor, Sky assessment. And then all of these other things came out that we were like, we're just like, looking at one thing. And then they're like, oh, no, your child is this your child, your child has this. And, you know, good thing, you caught this early, because we now can help you work with your child to and it wasn't, and this was us having a conversation, not me having a conversation with my child going, you're different and did it, it was sure not ever, that it was just now how we interacted with our child, how we interpreted and the things that we were doing in the house, so that they could thrive. But yet, then it's their emotions, their intake, their output, it's and they are before there, they are still kids, when they're, you know, 910 they don't know what they're doing. Right? And they do not know what you're doing. And then to have, you know, scrambled eggs for brains. Not going to help you and then like you were talking about getting to that puberty age, right? Where it all gets reset. Again. Again, I am your heart, your hormones, the body, the emotions all get reset. You're just like learning how to walk all over again. Because your body is changing. Your brain is like, oh, you know? So I was like, no, no, no, no, no, like, more lazy. And when I hear you say that, they said, Well, it's good that you caught it early, I feel this tremendous amount of guilt for my 21 year old because I just didn't I just didn't know and I I just didn't catch it. And I didn't do it soon enough. And now I think my poor 10 year old you know, I'm trying to make up for the things that I missed. But I still you know, I struggle as a two time divorce a with two different fathers two different kids. It's really, I'm really enjoying hearing your story because it's hopeful, you know, but it's like, I don't have I don't have that collaboration. I know I have a lot of barriers. I don't only have to fight the system, the school the the the labels, the insurance company, I have to work with their father that doesn't believe there's a problem. And do you have to get approval even to just go see a therapist, just a psychologist like just? Well, I don't but I think because he has taken her to medical doctors without my consent. But I didn't say I don't give consent. Right. And even when I did for like the vaccines I said I left The message saying, you know, I don't give consent for this, it doesn't matter because it's the law. So they didn't care. So, you know, and then there's that whole battle, you know, is it worth it to go to court and possibly lose? Or, you know, what do I do, and I get stuck in paralysis a lot with what to do, because there's a lot of variables, but I'm enjoying hearing this, because it's given me ideas on maybe just one step. You know, just take one step. Well, I wish I could I know who to talk to there, you know, you might be able to find some support groups that at least you can talk to? I don't know, I don't know. You know, it's interesting, because my daughter is that my 10 year old has been going to a therapist, she's been in therapy for about a year and a half. And it's not just your typical psychotherapy, it's a alternative nonprofit, where the practitioners are licensed. And you know, LCSW MFTs. But they also practice alternative, I guess, alternative therapies, you know, they don't just do cognitive behavioral, what is that? What anyway, so alternative? What is that, like, so like they do equine therapy, they do sandtray therapies, they do art therapies. So they do different ways to get a child to understand their feelings, and to kind of, you know, just walk through it with them. A lot of play therapy, you know, I walked into this therapists room and the whole entire room, every wall was filled with little figurines, and they would put them in the sand tray, and they'd reenact, and they'd play. And I don't think that's very non traditional. I think that's pretty much a lot of child therapists have that. But the equine has been really powerful for her working with horses and doing that. So in there, because he was in agreement, I asked the MFT, you know, would she recommend my daughter being evaluated by a psychotherapist or a psychiatrist, to determine whether she has other learning disabilities and maybe on the spectrum? And so they said, Yeah, we don't do that. But here are some referrals. And then it stopped there. Because my daughter's father said, That's not necessary. I don't think it's necessary. I think she's just fine. And does your daughter like, are you asking her? Are you okay? But the you think that she feels fine? I think she did. I think now that she's becoming, you know, she'll be 11 in a couple months. And I noticed her friend group is changing. She's spending more time alone. You know, so those things, which, you know, when you look up the big picture, it's very normal to you know, there was times in my growing up where I spent a lot of time alone, I was between groups, people are changing. So I don't think it's as black and white, as I want it to be or as black and white as he wants it to be. And I just think, well, there's no harm in having her assessed, we don't have to do anything with the information they give us. We could just fucking sit on it. You know, like, we don't have to do anything. Let's just see what he has to say. Exactly. You know. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And, but you know, and it's not something that you have to turn over to the school, like, it is just something to help, right? You say that I didn't, I was fully ready to like, I'm not giving this to the school. But then it was like, Okay, this will be beneficial to go to the school with this to help out. And it totally did. But also, it helped back her up when she was advocating for herself, because that was the big thing that we wanted to empower her to say, I did not understand. I don't know what you're talking about. Can you go over this? I need some more time. I need to be in a quiet room. You know, the No, dinner is too distracting, even though it's a quiet room that she can hear somebody tapping on the floor with their toe. How did you empower her to be able to say, what were some of the tools when she would come back home and say, Oh, this happened at school? And we will say and what did you do? Like instead of just going oh, all right. I'm gonna go to talk to teacher tomorrow, and we're gonna take care of this shirt. It was like, Dorothy, we've talked about this before, you know, you know that. What did you do? Oh, well, I didn't want to say anything to the teacher. Well, why not? And then we just get that conversation going. Because yes, initially she was like, I didn't want to say anything. But then finally, I remember the day that she did come home and said, I told the teacher that, you know, I didn't get it. And I needed her to do it. And she said it was okay. And then I was able to do my work. And you know, like, she was so proud of herself. But it started because we were like, What did you do? What did you do? Like, it's, you know, the teachers, they don't always know, you know, that the kids don't always know. You have to and we can't be there for you. What did you do? And it didn't just have like, you know, it wasn't the first day like, Okay, I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna tell her, you know, it took a little bit to like six months for her to like, Okay, fine. But, in the teacher responded, We had also talked to the teacher, you know, beforehand, but the teacher also said, you know, I'm, I'm really busy. I have a lot of these children. But yeah, that would be helpful if I miss something with your daughter that if she, you know, brings my attention back to it. Okay, yeah, no problem. So it's like, we told you, you know, she said it was okay. You need to, it's alright, raise your hand and say, Can you repeat that? And that was one of the things that came up. I mean, that was like, okay, so forget about the, whether they're on the spectrum or not, it was just the like, Oh, this is how we deal with this behavior. Like, when you say something the first time and then I noticed it like, right, I'm, let's say, I'm in the house I'm making. I'm cooking dinner, or whatever. And she's trying to help me. And I'm like, walking away from her going, can you get the flower out of the cabinet? Well, because of, you know, the diagnosis. So we understood that she got half of that she either got the shirt, the flower. So then I would turn around, and she's standing there just holding the flower, like, what am I supposed to do? Like, what do you want with a flower? Or she got the open the cupboard. And so she's just standing there, looking at the cupboard? And it was those kinds of things that before had I not known? I would have been like, Hey, can you get that? Can you? What is what I just asked you to do? Like, what is wrong with you? Why can't and chick just like I heard you say was open the cupboard. Right? So it's like not only child assessment, a parent assessment, we have to learn, it seems like it's an assessment for both of us is and that once we have a diagnosis, and we know what we're dealing with psychologist, she was a psychologist, I just looked her up comprehensive neuropsychological assessments, they were able to talk us through because yeah, but you have all this jargon on the paper, and you're like, what does that mean? What's cognitive behavior? Like, they would explain it, they would give us examples. And then they would say, this is how you can respond to that, here's how you can help support this, you know, weak area, and she's still growing. So it doesn't mean that she'll always be this way, or this will always be a weakness, it'll become, you know, you can strengthen that weakness. So I was like, Oh, okay. It's not a label of like, okay, this is it, and you'll ever be this way, and you'll never be able to do anything. That wasn't how we approached it at all. It was, okay, this is where you're at right now. And here's how we're going to support you right now, to get you to the next step. But I fully expect you to get to the next step, like never in my mind that I go, Oh, that's it, it's over, you know, this is as much as you can do. Don't worry about it, you know, this is always going to be your weakness. That's like, no, that's my older daughters. That's my older daughter's self taught. No, you Oh,

it is. And then you get off of the track of everybody else, what everybody else is doing. Because I don't care what everybody else is doing. Everybody else has their own track. They're on their own journey. This is your journey. This is your track, we're on the track with you. And we're going to help you get to the next step. And you will get to the next step. So, you know, I mean, that's just it, like, it doesn't so, you know, so that by the time we went through all of this stuff at the beginning, if you would have told me that she was going to go to college, you know, and get accepted into a big college and all this stuff. Yeah, in the back of my mind, I was like, Oh my gosh, that's gonna be a long journey. Like, yeah, we expect you to get there. But but then we got there. And, you know, through her own development through her own experiences, because we kept the ball rolling the wheels turning, she empowered herself. We got to see her personality develop and who her personality, you know what her personality was all about. And she became her own advocate, her strongest advocate, because she didn't like like school. It was hard for her. You know, everybody else was like, Oh, I got a "A". Yeah, Dorothy might get an A too, but by golly, she He had to work hard. She had to read and reread. She had to write notes out, she had to go to every training tutor. session when many hours.

But and so you know, the funny thing is my daughter that's 21. She goes through that too. And then unfortunately, we didn't get her assessed and do all the things earlier, but she has been learning herself about a lot of it now that she's older. And so she's just finished, I think, three years, two and a half years at junior college. And she'd always tell me how hard it is. And she's working so hard. And she's up till three in the morning, but she's getting her stuff in and I'm always hearing about I never got it in on time. I failed. I failed. I failed. And then she goes oh, look, I'm on the Dean's List. Yeah.

Exactly. And that's part of the Anxiety, poor kid.

Yes. And the Depression, depression. That was, I wasn't even thinking about depression. Anxiety is a like depression is anxiety turned inward? So an anger turned inward? So it's just Yes. Why do I suck so bad? Why do I have to work so hard? Why, and then they just get depressed. But to get to give them the the tool, the resources to talk themselves out of that, to not fall so deep into it to be able to stop and say, Stop, you're talking negative talk? That's not helpful right? Now. Let me go do something, yeah, to recognize it in themselves. Because once they start going down that rabbit hole or that spiral, it's hard. It's hard. And you know, to be honest, to be effing honest. I didn't have those tools. So I realized I'm Like you as a person or you as a mom? Both. And so I just didn't know what to do. And so I relied a lot on my meditations and what I would get, because I just didn't know what to do. I didn't know I had no idea. And so for I think it took like two years. And I had a therapist, that she's also a friend and I, she works with kids and teens, we call her the teen whisperer. And she actually sees a lot of my mom, friends, kids, but I just kept giving her that information. Like, you know what, I think this could be helpful, I think it can be helpful, because maybe I was too close to her, I couldn't get her to listen to the things that I was saying. I didn't have enough confidence, maybe in the things I was saying I hadn't done enough research, I, you know, as a single mom, my time is a little bit different. My priorities are a little bit different. You know, and I being effing honest, I, I have a lot of shame and guilt about not being a good enough mom all the time. And this is a very, like, hard subject for me to talk about, because I feel like especially with my 21 year old life have failed her. That's how I feel a lot. But I will say, on a positive note having gone through seven or eight years of this, that she has found her way, and it's not perfect. And it could have been easier. Maybe we could have avoided the depression that she went through. I don't know. You know, it's just like it is what it is. And I had to have to say I did the best I could. But she did find the resources she needs in the things that you're saying. I hear her talking herself through more, you know, but you know, she's older too. Would it have made a difference? If I would have had assessments while she was 1011? Maybe, you know, maybe? I don't know. But I don't know. What do you do after the fact? You know, what do you do when you've missed the window, you meet your child where they are you have grace with yourself and grace with error. And you just move on? You don't stop? It's not over. It's never over. It's never over the two you pick up. And you continue on the journey. I mean, yeah, we got the assessment. Okay, great. But that wasn't the like, ah, that's it. We got the answer. It's over. It was just a guide to help us get through things. But after one issue is, you know, kind of resolved or phased out. There's another one because it's life and in life, you have to constantly dealing with life, you know, just with things with yourself. It just, it just changes right? She was an elementary kid, she was dealing with her peers, she's dealing with her teachers, you're dealing with her parent. If you're dealing with her sibling, right then it was high school and peer pressure and teachers and all Where are you going to go in life? What are you going to do? And right now, it's college and it's like, I'm then I'm an adult, I'm like, 19 now and everybody says, I'm an adult, and I'm not ready to be. But yes, I do want to be, but what am I going to do it myself, but how am I going to do that, and I want to get away from the family, but I don't want to get too far from the family. You know, like it just all of these things, but you just, you have the tools, you keep talking, you keep the communication open. And it does help you like you, you know, it helps you communicate, it helps you be a better version of yourself. And even if you can't get the the assessment for your child, or don't forget about yourself, get if you can get therapy, if you can go get some kind of checkout, whatever, definitely do that because it does give you peace of mind. And as these things come at you in life, you your meditation, like, you know, like we did today was like, Ah, that was great. You do need to stop and go. Okay, let me listen, let me be in the moment, let me gonna take in that little breath can help put you in their shoes or look at things through their perspective. And to be just be observant. Absolutely. And I think that what you said, you know, go to get the therapy. And so that's where I have been with my parenting because I had traumas that I think also prevented me from having the ability to do these things. And it did in certain ways. Actually, I didn't know it then. But I, when I looked back, I see it. And I think that is really important. So when you had said that, you know, once you got the assessment, then the psychologist helped you and your husband even, you know, to understand what it's like to work with your child that has these types of learning behaviors or, you know, abilities to hear and understand and, and regurgitate. So I think that was really important. And, and one of the things I wanted to go back to was, you had said early on, like, the labeling Yeah. And then I feel as I've listened to you speak, the labeling has become more of actually a resource, like, the label is really a resource, it gives the child access to resources. And that was what the psychologist, that's how she presented it to us. She said, don't it's not a label, like, we're not here about labeling. It's about giving you resources to help your child and just know, giving you knowledge so that you can make informed decisions. So again, we didn't have to go to the school and turn over anything, we didn't have to even say anything. And for a long time, we didn't actually, like we didn't come out and say, This is what the report said. Later, when they were a little older. We said, Remember that testing you did and you know that, whatever, here's what the outcome of that was. And this is why we've been asking you to do all this stuff at school and how we've been dealing with the teachers or whatever. And, you know, and then they were like, oh, okay, you know, cool, like, they were fine with it. They weren't. But we needed to wait until they were a little older. Because yeah, if we would have said, yeah, they said, you're on the spectrum. You know, then they're like, wait, what they're listening. They're still at that young age, but they're listening to everybody else. There's, they're like that, Oh, I see how that person they said is on the spectrum. I see how everybody's treating them. I don't want them to treat me that way. I'm not saying that this is now something shameful. Like, No, we just said, You know what, you you process things differently. You do things a little differently. You just need some different tools to help you get through but you're fully capable of doing everything else. You just need to do it a little differently. That's how we presented it to them. And that that was the language that they went out there. I just need to do things a little differently. My mom said it's okay. Like, oh, okay, and that's all they were talking about. And that's how they were doing. That's how they presented themselves. Like, I do things a little differently. But I can still do it. You do I just do it a little differently. So that's, and then the child is empowered to know what resources exactly and that was the whole thing. empower them, empower them, empower them, so that by the time they A, you know, we told them everything that developmental disabilities are differences, the learning differences. They're pretty funny. They were like, I think this kid at my school has some learning differences. And, you know, I just I went, I talked to them because I saw them struggling in the classroom. And it just opened them up. And they gave him some tools. You know what I told him? I was like, Oh, what did you tell, you know, so and so? Oh, I showed them my agenda, because it really helps me keep track of my classes and where I have to go and my homework. And I told them all about it. And they said, it was really cool that I said, and they were going to ask their parents to get them one. And then they hear they have a friend to like, now that shared was like, hey, you know, are they asked me to sit at lunch together? It's like, Yeah, okay. You know, where they came to bend? Because there is no separation between I think academic issues and social issues in school. I don't think there's much of a separation. You know, it's all intertwined. It's all interrelated. It's a holistic process. Yes. And they recognize each other. They see, yes, I like you answered that way I would have mentioned or I mean, you just like, we're all in this together. Let's go. So yeah, just and you know, what you had said that you didn't have the resources. And that just reminded me and this, it keeps coming up that women are behind in being diagnosed, you know, see, treated for learning differences for being ADHD or a DD for all of those things. And it's not until the adult, they become adults, and maybe they have more resources, or they just finally get exhausted. And they say, Doctor, you know, like, what's wrong with me? And then they find out like, Oh, you are on the spectrum, or you have ADHD or whatever. And then it's a sigh of relief for them. A sigh of like, Ah, I thought there was something wrong with me, there's, there's nothing wrong, you just have a different wiring. And yeah, after you learn about all this stuff, after you do all of these, these testings, and all these talks, and whatever, honestly, I think we're all a little on the spectrum. We're all have some degree ADHD, ADHD, or learning difference, or cognitive, you know, weakness or whatever, because I'm going through the test filling this out for my kid going like, oh, but yeah, that applies to you. Oh, I should do that. I always. You know, come on. Well, and I think that's the beauty of our society in the world. Right now, with all the information out there, I think, what I have experienced, and what I've seen is that label and that stigma isn't as strong as it was, like, 20 years ago, not even close. No, it's It's not not even close, it's a lot more mainstream. I think more kids are mainstream with these different types of learning. And, but that's gonna go into a whole new thing, like the whole education system needs to be changed, right? Just like everything right now. But, you know, I, this is really, I'm glad you brought this up. I mean, this has been really enlightening to understand assessments and to kind of get an idea of the path. And it's interesting, just seeing what it's bringing up in me and where I might have blokes about it. Like maybe I don't even want to go into it. Because I feel so guilty and so shameful already in ADS. Like, once I opened this door, I'm gonna look like the worst mother ever. Like, why didn't you do that for your first? Or why didn't you do this five years ago, or, you know, so, but it's also giving me more understanding and inspiration and motivation to make me want to maybe delve into this a little further. And, you know, even like, for my older daughter, if I, if it's, I can't get the, you know, I can't go back in time. But just hearing what you said about, you know, get me a thing of flour, and they're just standing there. I mean, that is my daughter all the way. And she has told me she said, I need it in writing. Yes. Like you need to put it in writing. So text has actually been great. So if I send her to the store, I make a list of everything with every detail. And, you know, it works out she's not as stressed. And, and I don't. And to be honest, I don't expect it to be 100% You know, I hope and I always know she's doing the best she can whereas before I kind of thought God she's just taking advantage of me. She's always on her phone. She's lazy..... And that was always like they're just lazy. You're not trying like, but once you change your lens just a little bit and you know, and you've worked with, didn't you see them thrive? You're like, Oh, yes, like you really just didn't get it because this thing says you cannot get it like, that's one of your weaknesses, it's not going to happen that way. But if you present it a different way, they'll get it. And that was then it was just like, Oh, I just have to, like learn your language. And, okay, well got it like, I should do that, you can do that. And, you know, I just want them to throw I don't care. But I know everyone gets hung up on the, the label the label the label the label, well, that's you putting a block on yourself, that's you putting a block or a anchor on your child, and you're not, you know, the good, you're trying to move, but you're not getting very far because you're afraid of that label. Like, I don't give a rat's patootie about the label, I mean, label us all you want, but you're not going to sit, put my child to the side, I'm not going to have my child fall through the cracks, you're not going to expect less from my child. And you're not going to put that society second have put these barriers or anchors on them, and tell them what they can and can't do. I want them to do what they want to do, they have the right to do and be happy and, you know, be expressing themselves and be loud and proud. And whatever, I you go for it, you will give you the tools to make you to help you, you know, do what you want to do. And I don't I just I don't. I don't, I want them to always try. Like I don't ever want them to feel sorry for themselves. I don't ever want them to, oh, I can't do that. Because I'm not, you know, as fast of a reader. But you can read. So I don't care. You can really you can read their reading to don't look at what they're doing. Look at your book. Did you finish your book? Do you enjoy your book? All right, you look at you. And just you keep on rolling. And I think that was a big thing that I think maybe one of the few things I may be have done right was PCs. So the other thing I just realized was she just isn't going to be at the pace of everybody else. You know, she didn't even want to get her driver's license for crying out loud for the longest time. And I had to let that go. That was like what the hell? And so, you know, now, my oldest just got into the design program in Long Beach, you know, did it happen right out of high school? No, did she worked her butt off to get it done and get in transfer and do everything she applied. She did everything on her own. I did not get involved, except when she would need a little something here there. But she took her own initiative. She was her own motivators. She did, she got in. So you know, I just and now I just go see you can do it. See, you could do it. Now you have something that when you ever you start giving yourself that self talk, I can't do it. I can't do it. And yes, you can look at this, you did this, you did this. Who cares? What happens next? You did it, it's done, you got to celebrate it. So I think that as a mother's intuition, we also know our children's PS. And I did grapple with that because my pace is a lot faster. And I think society's paces a lot faster. And so there would be this like, you know, between being frustrated between being ashamed between pushing too hard, you know, it was like a real balancing act for me to just say, this is how she rolls, you know, even without the assessment and being able to go and this and this, and this is why I just knew this is how she rolls and it's just going to take longer. What's the big hurry anyway, there you go. What's the big hurry anyway? I don't get it. So that was our that was kind of our way of walking through. It was well, I don't know, this is as fast as she can go and everything's gonna work out. Yes, absolutely. You know, yay. At some point, it's our journey. I can't control it. There you go. It is her journey. And she's taking control of her journey. And she is trucking along. Yeah, that's it. That's it. So you've done fine, Jennifer, you've done fine. And that's my own stuff. You know, that's my own stuff. And in through this process of having kids, I realize it's just my own stuff. Well, with kids, you learn that you have a lot of stuff that you didn't think you had before. And it all comes down after you have children like what are you talking about? But that's where another so we're coming to the end? Is there anything else that you wanted to say about assessments, child assessments before we wrap it up? Um, no, I don't want to say anything else, because I'm going to type it up and put it on our website. And the extra notes are gonna put in there but no, I think we're all good. It's a good place to end. All right. All right. Well done. Well, thank you for all your research and sharing your story. It's really helpful for me, I love listening to that is really helpful and you're the researcher, I'm the Oh, big picture. So I think it's like a really good balance that really integrates both types of thinking really well. So I just really appreciate you sharing that. And I mean, it's giving me steps and where I could probably go with my second chance daughter. Awesome, here are some books, just read some books to like, help you see, like, oh, is this you know, something? Just because even if you don't have that assessment, you can meet your child where they are, and keep on rolling. So no, allright. Nice. That's it. So we thank you all for listening and sharing your time and energy with us. And we invite you this week to go out and be effing honest with someone and see what happens. And don't forget to come on board. Subscribe to Our Podcast. All right. Yes, we love to hear your feedback and have you aboard. All right. Get honest, Get honest. Be f'ing honest. All right. All right. See you next week. See you next week. Bye. Yay. Thank you for listening to being effing honest with your hosts, Jennifer Wong and charity Rodriguez. Subscribe to our show wherever you listen to podcast, and if you have a suggestion, question or topic you want us to talk about, connect with us at www being effing honest.com And until next time, we hope you're always being effing honest