Boundaries

Hello, and welcome to Our Podcast being effing honest. I'm Jennifer Wong.

And I'm Charity Rodrigues.

We invite you into our conversations about everyday issues experienced by everyday people. We share our stories with honesty and humor, hoping to bring people together in community by showing how vulnerability can deepen bonds when done with kindness and non judgment. We know it's tough. So we'll go ahead and go first. Hello, charity.

Hello, Jennifer. Okay. All right. So I told you that I wanted to try something. So let me start it up real quick. Here we go. Do you find yourself not wanting to disappoint others? Do you say yes to everything like driving far away to pick up specialty grocery items, or you agree to pick up complicated coffee requests for everyone on that team? Or you don't want to go to a movie with your friend. But you don't want them to feel bad? You can not bear the thought of people thinking badly about you. But where do we draw the line with family? Friends? Lovers? is saying yes, always in your best interest? Well, today, our West Coast podcaster Jennifer Wong is going to honestly share her lived experience, provide transparency on the hard lessons learned and reveal what makes us vulnerable. When boundaries are not firmly in place. Jennifer

you're gonna share your stories do I like it? Okay, I

was trying to be on like, you know, what is it Barbara Walters? So little something but boundaries, folks. That's what we're talking about boundaries,

boundaries? You go. Okay. Well, this is a big topic. I think it's a huge topic. And it's got a lot of facets and a lot of different perspectives. And I think everybody views it differently. And it seems like a a word of rhetoric. You know, like everybody says, You got to have boundaries. But what does that really mean? You know, what does it really mean? And the other thing is, it's so easy to talk about boundaries and know about boundaries, but to actually implement boundaries, that seems to be an even harder part. I mean, I've talked about it and disgusted and seen where I am not good at boundaries and where I might be. But still, when the rubber hits the road. There's all those old programs that just go out, let's just do what we know. Let's just do what's easy. And then we're like five miles deep and shit, and we can't get our way out. And it's because we didn't set good boundaries. That's my experience with it.

All right, but it's changed yourself. Do you think you have changed? Have you implemented changed a lot?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And there was a lot of things that I learned along the way, like there is a difference between boundaries and walls, there's a huge difference. And once that the difference. So like a boundary is actually something that love can penetrate. boundaries can be flexible. If we have enough self love, and walls are completely built, and they never go down. Nothing gets through them. And they are solid. And when I was trying to figure out the difference, I mean, this is years of looking into this like probably a decade and trying to understand the difference. And still to this day, I put up walls when I'm really in fear or really feeling uncomfortable or insecure. I'll put up a wall because it's really protection. Whereas a boundary is usually something that as I've continued to practice them is more about self love. Because if you love yourself enough, it's not hard to say no. But when we're me, codependent meaning I want everybody around me to be happy, comfortable, safe, happy with me, especially because that whole codependent thing. It isn't just for them. That's a big lie. We're codependent so that people will be calm so that we can feel good. It's always about us, essentially. And so but when I had in the past but of walls, there was no chance of healing relationships. There was no chance of opening the door to conversation. I guess that's not entirely true, not no chance, but it's a lot harder, a lot harder to broach that conversation. Okay, so

let's go back. When did you recognize that? Like, not having boundaries was not good? Like if you're people pleasing, and you're just, you know saying yes, this is at what point did you go you know what I changed this or you recognize that's not healthy?

Well, it wasn't on my own, I'll tell you that for sure. It wasn't my own thinking, that got me to understand boundaries, it was probably being in community with my friends, and also having the fellowship and the 12 step program that I was involved. And they really taught me about boundaries. And not just like talking about it, but having to implement it. And I got most of my practice being in a marriage, like we mentioned in the gaslighting episode that did not honor boundaries. And instead, when I would set a boundary, it was shown to me how it was not good and that I was not good, and that I was selfish. And I was self serving. So boundaries can definitely look like that. But I would say it was all the years in that fellowship and doing the work with a sponsor and other friends that were practicing the same thing. I still have troubles. I mean, I'm still rubbing up against a bit against it to this day, you know, it's not easy. I'd rather just, Oh, I'd rather just walk away and hope everything works out. But sometimes what I'm also learning is so self love is found in boundaries.

Yes, I agree. I agree. But now we got to take another step back again, because you've mentioned being in the support group. And I keep meaning to ask you. Why were you in the support group? Because it wasn't a a Alcoholics Anonymous, right. You said it was a support group, for those supporting others with other issues? Correct? Yeah. So what prompted you to go into that support group

in the first place? Wow. So it's actually the 12 step group that I was a part of was Al Anon, which is for friends and families that have loved ones that have issues with alcohol, alcohol, alcoholism. And I didn't know anything about it. And I was actually working at a drug and alcohol rehab center, I was living with a man that was in AAA. And my daughter's friend's mother, we were just talking one day, and she said, Oh, I think you could really use Al Anon. And I thought, okay, whatever. And she took me to three meetings. And I was just interested, I, I'm always interested, I'm a lifelong learner. And I'll just, if someone says something, and it resonates with me, I'll try it. I'll try anything. So I did, I went. And I'd say the first time was terrifying. The second time was scary. The third time was a little easier, but it's intimidating. You know, especially as a person that always felt like I was not part of the group, that I don't belong, that I'm weird that there's something terminally flawed about me that people aren't going to want me to be part of their group. But I just kept coming back. They keep they say that keep coming back. And I just did and I don't know why. I this is where I think like Spirit just wanted me to keep going, keep going. And I did and it really saved my ass. I learned a lot about myself. It was nothing. It had nothing to do about the alcoholics. It had nothing to do about anybody else. They instigated triggers in me that I got to take there and learn how to work out and boundaries was a big, huge piece of it.

So I'm assuming that before this, your boundaries were very loose, and maybe not even there. So what were some experiences where you had what were some examples of things that you probably should have had some boundaries with, but you didn't have the skills, the experience, what not to have in place?

Gosh, we are being effing honest, aren't we?

Yes, that's the name of the

show. I mean, you asked a couple of questions there, but I would say yes. I obviously didn't have good boundaries. I didn't know it. At the time, I thought I was doing just fine. Wondering why I always felt like a victim. And then I started understanding why. And I mean, there's a lot of things. I mean, even raising my oldest daughter, I had terrible boundaries, because I always felt guilty and ashamed that I divorced her dad. So like, for instance, oh, I need you to do the dishes, and she wouldn't do it. So I would do it. I didn't want to wait any longer. So I would do it. I mean, there's a lot of those little things, right. And I would say, I was really good at putting up walls, you know, fear, forget everything and run. And so I would put up a wall so that I could run and especially with my mom, that was a really difficult one, I would set a lot of walls with her. And I would keep coming back to try to set a boundary, but she is another person in my life that really pushed my boundaries. She would. I don't even know if she pushed any boundaries, because I didn't have any but she really liked to have things her way, a certain way. And if it wasn't that way, then I would pay emotionally, you know? Okay, so I didn't even know I was just lost. I was just chasing my tail until I really started learning about what boundaries were for sure. Okay. What about you charity? Like, where have you felt that you couldn't have better boundaries?

I don't know, though, was a tricky one. I thought about that this week. A lot. And, you know, I was reading up on on boundaries. And you know, what does it mean, really. But I, I guess what I discovered was that I am, I have a lot of walls. I did not think that I had a lot of walls, but I have a lot of walls to protect myself. And my immediate family, my children, my husband, I have a wall around them, keeping them in protecting them, trying to keep them safe from family, just the outside world. But then I have walls with family. Because of that gaslighting sewed that we were talking about. I, I know I have to have up walls with my own family, because they can use your past as a weapon. They use it to weaponize themselves against you may not think that they, I recognize the ones that it's a weapon, but they're coming at you with love, they feel like they're trying to help you and support you by pointing out all of these flaws and experiences that may have nothing to do with who you are today. But that's where they're stuck. They have these pins of episodes and experiences with you that they just can't let go. They haven't evolved or changed or matured or whatever. They haven't walked your journey. And so that's okay, I get it. I can see that with them. So I'm not, you know, perturbed. Then there's other ones that are like, No, there's just a wall, like I do not care. I don't want to hear it. I don't need to know, I'm not concerned about what you have going on. You don't need to be worried about what I have going on. We're just that that and I cannot let that wall go down and I will not let that wall go down to my dying day. So that's just where I'm at there. But then with people just people in general. Yeah, I have a wall but for the same reason that you said you feel like an outsider, you you want to belong but you don't feel like you belong and you know and or recognize that you're different and but I don't know if I Okay, let me take that back. I don't know if it's a wall. It's more of a mask. Like there's no mask that I put on when I you know walk out the door. And I try to present myself in a way that is accepting. Knowing deep down like I am not like any of these people. And if they really knew who I was, maybe they might not like me So let me just put that mask on because it's when you when I feel like oh, here's an opportunity, I might be able to reveal my true self. And then you get the blank stares, just kind of like Okay, nevermind, it's just easier to put the mask on and just go on. And when I come home, that's when the mass, you know, are down, I walk into the little wall, and it's all happy, happy time. It's all good. So there.

And that's, I like that, because that reminds me one of the things with boundaries is being authentic, right being our true selves anywhere. And if when I got to the point where I, well, I'm still working on it. But as I got better at loving myself, accepting myself knowing my worth it, it's challenging, but it becomes easier to be myself in public. So even like dating, I have to have boundaries, I have to be authentic. Because I don't want people getting the wrong impression, but I want to come out and be exactly who I am. And I think before I was in the business of people pleasing, I was in the business of perception management, you know, by me putting on a mask, I'm managing your perception of me. Yes. And I just, I It's exhausting. I mean, for me, it was extremely exhausting. But I didn't really know like, there was so long where it wasn't, it wasn't as if I was thinking to myself, whoa, I'm being inauthentic. It just felt uncomfortable. I didn't have words for it, I couldn't explain it. Even in my 40s. It wasn't even a maturity thing. It was something that was beyond my recognition. Until, you know, I was led to these groups where they would show me with love and kindness. And basically, I would be shown from their own stories, where I could pick things out and, and relate to and connect with and say, oh, and then I could ask the questions when I run it through my own filters, but it took a while. But I think authenticity is a really big part of boundaries. And I think that when I am more authentic, to my honest, being effing honest with myself, which I have to say, that is a big piece of this podcast, it isn't just to go out there and be honest with your opinions and judgments. It's being effing honest with ourselves, like, what is really bothering me, what do I really value? What don't I value. And when I started looking more at my values, then again, I guess I could set stronger boundaries, because I know those values mean the world to me. And there's nothing I would do to like lie about those. Although I think we've all been in those situations, we're in a social situation. And people are talking about maybe politics or a law or you know, something that's just outside of being personal. And I might have agreed to a couple things to fit in, even though I didn't believe in it. And it felt terrible. Like I would walk away thinking, do I have to hold that up in the next conversation? Why did I say that? I don't believe that. Why don't I just keep my mouth shut? How's that for an option? Just shut it. But I think authenticity is a big piece of holding boundaries. And I think it's a practice we have to be kind to ourselves, because it's, it's not easy. And it's not something that we're ever taught to do. We're taught to be good girls, to be make everybody happy to have manners to say yes. When you mean no.

Yes, we are taught that is exactly what we are taught. And I feel like from my own experience in a Latin household, there was a lot of contradictions with my parent, like you, you know, be nice and kind and gracious, and you know, always thankful and whatnot. But my parents were awful, like, but you are an independent woman, you be strong and do you don't have to rely on anybody else. But then at the same time, they're telling you no, oh, no, no, no, just be quiet. Don't disagree. Just say yes. And just Okay, thank you. And I'm like, wait, but how how, you know, when am I supposed to do what? I say? No, I don't want that. Or when do I say you know, okay, sure. That's fine. I found myself in a few situations where I didn't know what to say because and this was when I was younger, when I had just moved out to Los Angeles. And I was very naive and I didn't know anything. I didn't have a lot of experience with men and people and their say saying things to me. And I'm just like, oh, yeah, sure, yeah. And you know that but somewhere like I would let it get too far along before I realized things didn't sound right did not go with I don't think they're really telling you what you think they're telling you. This isn't just a nice friendly conversation. I think there's something else going on here. I don't know what that something else is. But I think there are something else. God walked away, you know, and it would get to the I don't want to lie. I hate lying. But I I'm trying to get out of a situation. And you know, later in hindsight, when you're talking with friends or whatever, and they're just like, Oh, why didn't you just say you need to go bathroom? Like, why? And then just leave? Because that's lie. I don't want to do like, I can't just leave the guy like he was talking to. I was like, ah, yeah, ding dong. But you know, so

funny. It's like, that's lying. But it's also lying, staying there acting like you get it. You know? Constant lies.

But we are that was the whole Yes, you be this, but you also have to be this. Oh, that's hard. That is very hard. Yeah. Thank goodness, my daughter is not that way. She didn't pick up that skill. She was very blunt. And to the point and no, it just wants you to care about your feelings. Take care of your lip. They're graded upon Oh, she's just like, that was weird. Or, you know, I didn't like that and just walked away. And I'm like, Okay. And then I'm running back going, like, I'm so sorry. She was so rude to you. But it runs off, right? I'm apologizing for her. But I'm just again, I want it to be that way. But then just like, oh, I don't want them to feel bad.

I know, we grew up with this whole thing about people pleasing. It's pretty bad. We can't hurt anybody's feelings. But it's lying. Like, someone brought that to my attention. And then you're just lying. I'm like, Oh, I don't want to be a liar. That doesn't sit well either.

That's true. But what about with friends? With your friends, like I was talking about, like, you know, just outside people that like, whatever. But now, when are you? When does it feel like a lie to a friend? Or when does it feel like nobody really just want to do this? Like I just, it took, you know, like, sure. I'll go ahead and pick that up for you. Sure. Let's go ahead and do you know, whatever you want to do? Like, where's that? Where's the intuition? Or what's the you know, Spidey sense for that telling you or, you know,

I think it's the same thing. You know, if we're checking in and we know where our energy is at that day. We don't overbook overbooking is a big, bad thing that I used to do with no boundaries. I would just I'd overbooked things because I had no boundaries. It was like, Oh, yes, yes, I'll do this. Yes. And then I'm like, I can't be in three places at the same time. So I think it's really is about when I would go inward? And say, is this something that I can do and I just sit with it and ask myself, sometimes I'll hear a call for action from my friends where I could be helpful. And I don't say anything. This is one thing I learned is just don't say anything, give myself a few minutes, maybe a day to think about it, sit with it, and then reach out and offer something. You know, if someone asks me right on the fly, this is the other thing I learned when I was learning about boundaries, I can say, Let me think about that. And then the second part that I'm learning is when do you need to know by? Because sometimes I would just think about it, and it might take me too long, because I'm busy. And then I miss a deadline that they might need it. So I always say let me think about that. When do you need to know by those who have become really good boundaried responses instead of Yes, I'll do it or Nope. And then later, I'm like, I could have done it. So it's really those or I just need time, I need time and space to look at my calendar to touch get in touch with how I'm feeling. And then I can make a decision. I used to just feel like everything that was asking me I needed to know the answer right away. And it better be right. And if it isn't, you already said it. Now you're gonna have to kill yourself to make sure that you meet that obligation. And then I'm living a life of obligations. Don't want to do that.

Okay, I hear you. And I am still in the I need to respond immediately. And I probably should say, Let me think about that. I have found myself in a few situations where I did say something where I was like, oh, you know what, in hindsight, I didn't need to do that or I could do something else or whatever. But I like I like to if someone asks me a question, I like to reply immediately or get back to them immediately and tell them yes, no, maybe. So whatever. Just to acknowledge, I feel like I need to acknowledge the person and their question. And I know, that's because when I ask questions, I want someone to reply or acknowledge that at least I am there. So I like your response of let me think about it. Because yeah, that lets you have acknowledged, I heard you, and I would think about it. I just don't know what the answer is right now. Or I don't have an answer for you at this very moment. But I heard you, so go away.

And I think it's fair. I mean, we can't possibly have answers for everything right away. We just can't.

I know, I know. But

with my boundaries. The other thing is, if I need something, I kind of try to plan ahead, because I know people need time to think about it and check their schedules. So if I do drop something, that's last minute, I have to be okay, with not getting help. You know, if I'm asking for help, because I know now, now that I give myself the space, I can give other people space. And it's making me be more organized in my own life, you know, boundaries are really about me. You know, I'm, I think one of the things also I learned about boundaries was, Do I keep commitments to myself, like, that was a big piece. If I say that I want to, like I love my writing. And if I say I'm gonna write this piece by a certain day, do I make the time for myself to do it? Or do I just say, Oh, I had to do this. And I had to do that. And I don't even have boundaries for myself. That was a big piece that I started recognizing. Don't get me started. It's

harder. That was harder for people to do. I agree. We do need it. But I know that that would be the first thing people drop is something for themselves. You know, and they're long list of things to do. You should do you don't have a lot of I mean, we think, I don't know, we don't have a lot of grace with ourselves. We're just kind of like, Oh, we don't really need that anyway, you can just talk yourself out of it. I didn't really need that. I could do that later, is not a big deal. Right, right. That's what you tell yourself. So

but and that's about whole self love right there.

But, but again, that's something that we're taught, right? It's be about everybody else, you put yourself last in a situation. But how do you do? What are your thoughts about having boundaries within a relationship with your husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, lover? Whatever?

How about I'm still working on that. Two failed marriages. I'm still working on that. That might be my lifelong learning. But I would say that the same would apply. I mean, I haven't been in a relationship in three years. Because I've been working on all this stuff. You know, I don't want to go back and do any of that again. But I think that that the same thing is apply. And I will say through the dating, I have done so much better. I have been so much more clear, so much more upfront, so much more authentic. And even when I have to, like, Tell tell somebody, I I don't think this is a good match for me, which I hate to do. It's probably the hardest thing. I know, there's no way I'm not going to do it. Because my last marriage, that was my biggest boundary failure. I had said I do not want to get married again. I know I'm pregnant, but I really would rather not get married. And then it was I just got beat down, beat down, beat down. I got worn down. And finally I said yes. So that was probably my biggest boundary flounder of my life. I had said no, no, no, no, no. And then I said, Okay. Okay, I won't do that again. I won't do that again. I was so afraid of what it would mean to say no, I was so afraid of what it would do to our unborn child because I was getting all kinds of stories about how it was going to be so awful for the baby if we weren't married. And I knew in my heart that wasn't true, but I

wasn't going to be awful for the baby. If you were not married. What would be married? Do he there was a lot of things baby.

There was a lot of things he brought in his His religion he brought in the word bastard. I'm like, we haven't used that word to just grab a child in a long time. That's fine. Middle Ages stuff, so. Okay, so it was little things like that. And I don't think it was those kind of arguments that changed my mind. I think I just wanted peace. You know, the thing that people without boundaries, I want everybody around me to be happy so that I can feel happy. Because if nobody's upset with me, then I'm happy. It's like the smallest form of existence. Yeah, I don't do anything because I want to I don't do anything because it feels right for me. I do everything so that everybody around me is comfortable, happy and safe. And then I can finally feel safe. When a martyr when a victim, get off the cross, we need the would I even want to do that ever again. That is never going to happen. And as hard as it is, I like pinch myself until I do it. I'm just like, you are never going to do that again. So yeah, so I have made big changes. I have had very hard conversations with people and they probably weren't done very well. Because when I'm emotionally triggered, I lose my train of thought, I lose my words. Yeah. And, and that would happen a lot, especially being in a gas lighting situation, then I just say, okay, you know, because I can't even think about what I would try to say anymore. But I've really learned to go slow. Speak slowly. There's no hurry. Breathe. I don't set I don't care how I sound. I just want the words to come out. Right? No, is a complete sentence?

No, is a complete sentence. I like that. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I say yes to a lot of things. But my world, my social circle, or whatever is it's fairly small. So it's either just like, I'm interacting with my immediate family, my husband, my kids, that's it. Then there's, you know, the next circle, right? It's just like, your work people or whatever you have to deal with? Or family, like your family, your extended family, right? And then after that the next circle would be your peers. But like people that I don't know, I don't are asking, you're requesting something of me. I don't know who you are, what is going on? That sounds like it's something urgent. I don't have anything urgent going on right now. So if this will help you be on your merry way and get you going then fine. I don't care. I mean, that's kind of how I, I'm not invested in the relationship. But I am very weary of allowing other people's drama to become my drama. I just know, I remember in my 20s, I worked at Hewlett Packard, and there's this woman, I really admired her because she was so bold, and we worked well together. But she was really bold. And I remember there was a chaos going on in the office. And she came over to me and she was like, You know what, that lady, and she's yelling at me. And she wanted this, that and whatever. And I just had to stop and look at her and say, No, that's your crazy. That's not mine. I'm not gonna let your crazy become my crease. She just walked away from the lady. And I was like, Oh, you said that. But I thought about that, that has like stuck with me all the time. Don't let other people's crazy become your crazy. I always like no. And I always have to look at things through, you know, with those lenses on is this nice problem? Or is this your problem? And if it's problem, you know, and I can't the minimum that I could do to help you, that's fine, but you're not going to pull me in, you're not going to suck me in. Like it's just your problem, and you have to deal with it. And if it's just you need a listening ear, Okay, listen, hopefully, you know it's cathartic for you and you get your situation off your chest or whatever and maybe you just felt better I can go now and clear thinking and go on my merry way. That's fine. But if it's now charity, we need to go and take actions Oh, noon. No, we don't. Because I'm fine. Right? We're on that and you have a whirlwind of chaos going around you and I don't like chaos like I really I really don't like drama. I'm not one that watches all of these dramatic shows on TV that people get so absorbed into. I cannot go down that rabbit hole with you. I don't like that. That leaves me feeling anxious about people. I don't know. Like, it's a made up story. It's something that is on TV. And people are talking about, it's still like, what do you think they're going to do? I don't know. But I can't let that take up space in my brain. Because I have real people in front of me that I have to deal with. I have real problems that I have to try to figure out. And I'm not at a scape this, right, like, go and they watch the shows. And because it helps take their minds off of their own problems. When there's a problem in my life. I'm like, right on it. Like, okay, we're gonna deal with this right now. Let's go. What's the problem? I'm taking notes. Okay. Yeah. Did we try this? Do we try that? And that is a problem, right? I'm trying to always solve everything. And I can always let things go. And that is something I'm working on. But the honest, D for me is acknowledging the elephant in the room. There's an elephant in this room? How are we going to deal with this situation? I may not have the answer. But I'm going to how are we going to deal with this? Like, this has to be dealt with? You know, I don't know, I don't know what that says about me. That's a problem that I can't just let things go that I can't just give it a date. And you know, we'll leave the elephant in the room, like, what's the big deal? It's not bothering anybody? Why do we have to? But it bothers me that there's an elephant in the room, and I'm thinking the elephant needs to be upset, or somewhere else? Not in my

room? And sometimes it does, right? And then in the end, sometimes there are something you there's something you could do about it. And other times there just isn't. And it's a matter of removing yourself. I mean, but we use that space to make that decision to make that, to decipher that for ourselves. Is this something I tried to fix? Or is it something I let go, someone once told me that when you are trying to control things, you have no control over you make yourself a victim? So one of my ways of working with my boundaries is can I make a difference? Or is this something I can't possibly fix, change, manipulate, you know, manage? Is this beyond my realm. And the more I, the older I get, and the more I look at all this, the only things that are in my realm of control are is how I think how I behave and how I feel. And even those, I think, sometimes are not in my control, either. I get feelings that I wasn't planning on that. I didn't control that feeling. But really anything outside of me. I don't know how the outcome is going to be. Just because I behave a certain way, I have no idea how that outcome is going to be. But did the way I behave? Sit Well, in my heart? Did it make sense to me did it? Did it align with my values? Did it align with the things that I believe to be true in my life? Other than that, I don't think I really have much control. Even when I do things outside of me, I don't know what the ripple effect is, couldn't possibly know. I have intentions and hope that I don't know how it's going to be perceived. And that was the other thing. It's not my job to maintain how what I do is perceived. And that's another way for me to set boundaries. If I'm not worried about the results of my actions, then it's easier for me to say no, it's easier for me to say Yes, even I mean boundaries have given me so much more energy and time in my life, that now I say yes to things that I love, like this podcast. I wouldn't have been able to do this three years ago. Where was I going to carve in extra time as a single mom working 40 to 4050 hours a week? How was I going to do that? But now that I know what I love, and I know what I want to do, and I have my intention about why I'm on this planet. I make time for it. You know, I make enough time for it is total full time now. You know, but I do have time for my writing the same thing. I wouldn't use I wouldn't have done that five years ago. There's no time for that. I've got kids, I've got work and oh yeah, I can work extra Oh yeah, I can do that extra I can do this. I can do that. Until I'm so burned out that the free time is just spent on my back staring at the TV. Because I have nothing left. I'm a completely empty shell. And I don't want to do that anymore. A lot more energy by having boundaries for sure.

That's a tough one. That's a tough That's not easy for people to. Well, you had said it earlier, you have to be honest with yourself. And people are not honest with themselves. But how do you convince people to be honest with themselves?

Well, I guess they're scared of the

answer. Right? Maybe they they think deep down know that there's something that they have to face, but they're scared to face that. Sure.

Absolutely. But I don't think we can convince people to be honest with themselves either. You know, but

okay, yes, you're right. We cannot convince others. We have no control over them. But what do you do with a friend that comes to you? And you know what the situation is, you know what their story is. And yet they keep stepping back into that same situation.

I just listed until they asked me for my input. I don't give advice unless I'm asked. I mean, I do it. God knows I'm human. But I try not to. I try to just listen, I'm waiting for an ask. I wait for an ask how I think about it. Charity. How many times have you jumped in before you were asked? Some people don't want our opinion or our help? Yeah. Yeah. So now I wait till I'm asked, or I offer Can I help you with this? Or do you want my opinion? Do you want my feedback? And sometimes I like to help. My friends were close enough. They'll be like, No, I just want to I just need to vent. Okay, cool. No, I don't need to say anything. It's just my opinion.

I don't offer opinions to friends. I just listen. Because I don't that's I don't know, fully their story. Right? I'm just hearing one side of a story. So if there's a complaint about a, you know, significant other, I'm just hearing that person's throat I'm not hearing like, well, what they know, it takes two to tango, right? And so that's always in the back of my mind. So I'll listen to what this person is saying. But I don't offer any advice, because that can come back to bite you in the butt. With family, I, I've, I've learned I cannot offer advice. I think I'm being helpful. I think, well, this clearly is what you need to be doing. But sometimes they just like being where they're at doing what they're doing. They're comfortable with that, how fast or how slow their treadmill is going. So, you know, I may have my point where I'm comfortable, and it's fine for me. It's just not fine for them. And that's okay. But I yeah, I can't, you know, especially if my family, especially my family, I cannot offer any advice. It always comes back. Like I think I'm being helpful. And it will just turn right around. And I'll be shocked. Like, what do you mean, I was just trying to hope that you said that this was going on. And then you get into an argument about what your what you said versus but there's this other situation going on here. Like there's a dude over there, you know, stabbing your puppy, like, are you getting mad at me? Because there's a dude over there. Like, we should be talking about the puppy, like, you know, and they lose sight of everything. So but I guess, you know, I'm listening to you. And I'm like, okay, maybe that's a protection that I have put in place for myself. And that's just how I have to deal with it. But I'm fine with it. Like, do I need to change that? Do I need to go talk to someone about that? I'm like, good. I don't know that it would change anything for me. Now, I am aware of the whole boundary thing and I'm aware of my mass. But now I in at this point in my life. I don't care so much about what other people do. I think I wear a mask less as I go out and about my life. And I don't I don't know. I don't know I'm I'm still thinking do I care what other people think. I don't care what other people I don't know. Think. Let me think about that one with my friends. You keep going?

And I think it's I think I don't know if it's always straight across the board. I think it's situation specific. And for me, it's mood specific. Some days I'm feeling great. I'm in touch with myself. And nothing bothers me. And other days I wake up tired, feel like a bad mom feel like a terrible employee and everything bothers me. So I, it's not something that's always straight across, and I definitely don't do it right all the time. That's for damn sure. And the other thing when I had said, When do we jump in, when we're not asked, and my biggest thing is with my children, and whoever my romantic partner is my two worst places for me to set boundaries. The worst, it's hard for you, everybody else is fine. Like I Oh, you know, I can be there I can listen, I can process with you, I can do whatever you want. You know, I love you no matter what. But for whatever reason, the people in my house in my space, not so much. I have a harder time just being who you know, I'm just here to listen. But I'm, I'm getting better, especially with my older daughter, she is really leaving the nest. The apron strings are cut, we are really separating. And it's very hard for me because we were very, very close for a really long time. And now at 21. She's She's flying away, you know, in all met physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. She's on her own path. And it's hard. But it is. But I get to practice this with her now. So when she does take the time to involve me in her life, I'm just really careful not to start offering solutions, and to just listen until she asks, and then if I see something come up, I'll ask like, Do you want any my input on this? Or? And if not, I'm happy to just listen, I just want to know what you need for me. In this conversation?

Do you feel that your bond is strong enough that she may just be flying the coop for a little bit, but it'll you know, come back around?

I don't know. You know, because I can't guarantee anything. I mean, I'm hopeful. I see that that's probably likely. But there's a piece of me for my own protection that I have to be prepared that she won't. And I still need to live my life and I still need to love myself and I still need to do the things I want to do. That's kind of where my self talk is. Like, yeah, I would hope that and I'm Yes. And if there is a small chance that I'm wrong, and this is the beginning of a big separation. I have to be okay with that too. I have to

when you went away to college, I imagine you you left home or whatever. And you were in your college face. Whether you were there part time or full time or whatever. When college was over, did you come back around to home or were you still on your I need to get even further away from home. Whatever that may have looked like

my situation was dramatically different. My relationship to my mom was like 180 degrees different than my relationship to my older daughter. So I just always wanted to leave. I couldn't be gone long enough far enough. But I, I really felt very connected to my extended family. I loved them. So I mean, you know, you've been at our gatherings. I loved I would do my damnedest to make sure to be at every gathering in every event. But, you know, inside my home, it was it was violent. It was crazy. It wasn't terrible, but it must have been enough to make me want to leave. You know, I thought I could do anything I could do whatever it takes to get out of here. i As soon as I could get my license, I was like, oh, and once I got a car, I was gone. I was gone. Gone, Gone. Gone. Gone as much as I possibly could. Yeah. And then coming back, I would come back for the extended family gatherings. I didn't really look forward to hanging out with my nuclear family. Although my parents were divorced by then. So it was kind of just Yeah. I was in no hurry to come back. Okay. What about you

know, when I was a teen, and I was going off to college, I was just like, yes. Reedham I had so many. I had a lot of responsibilities, and I had a lot of boundaries that I had to stay with them. So I I couldn't date not that I was trying to date again. Nobody was asking Y'all are nothing but good. I couldn't date I couldn't go far I couldn't be out of the house late. Like it literally was like, go to school, come home, go to school go home. Then when I went off to college, I went to school, but on after, you know, on the breaks, I come home and I'd just be home. Everyone else is like, on their breaks meeting up with their old friends and their pals. And you know, whatever. And I had reverted back to my 16 year old self before I went off to college. Okay, I'm just here at home. Yes, mommy, no, Papi, what do you need me to do? Like, we were just doing our chores and responsibility. I wasn't suddenly like, I can drive and I'm taking off to go there. I wasn't going anywhere. Like I was just at home. Like, okay, so when I left college was like this out, like, what? I'm really out of here. And then I left. So, but then I was talking with my younger sister. And she was like, she was at college or something by that point. And she's talking about how she was talking to my mom. And I was like, you talked to my mom called you? And she's like, No, I called her I was like you did? Like, would you do that for you? Like, just touch base and see how they're doing to see what's going on? And I was like, Oh, I never occurred. Like, just call it like, Hey, Mom, what's going on? So I, that's when I was like, I should call home. Okay, just let them know. I'm okay, and what's going on? So that was like four or five, six years before I was like, Hey, Mom, how's it going? What are y'all doing what's going on at home? And it took, you know, a while to get comfortable with me calling and talking to my mom. Because up until that point, I wasn't sharing anything with my mom. My mom didn't know anything. Not that nothing. No way. No. How about who I was, what I was doing or not doing? She didn't know anything. Like the only time I ever called when I was at school was there's a break. I'm coming home, I have to come home. Okay, how are you going to get home? Well, okay, I'll try to see if somebody can can give me a ride to the meeting point there was a meeting place. Okay, they didn't know this was before cell phones and all that stuff. So it was just like, Okay, I'm going to be at the meeting place. They said that we should be there by like five o'clock, that somebody's going to be there. Okay. We'll see. How was it? It wasn't like, yes, your father's going to because my mom wouldn't drive that distance to go get us. It would have to be my father. So it was like, I my friend, we just dropped me off in this empty parking lot. And I'd be like, Okay, bye. They're like, yeah, yeah, don't worry about it. Yeah, they're on their way. There'll be here any minute. I would be there for like an hour, two hours. Now you have a cell phone. I was just like waiting, hoping somebody would show up. They did come and pick me up. But it was that kind of situation. I'm like, okay. Oh, thanks. You know, that there was no, sorry, you're sorry, I'm late. You know, it was just like, okay, and get in the car and then just go home. So yeah, I was like, I have a car, I could go do things. I have people that, you know, I'm I was setting up how I wanted to have relationships and communications with people. Like, if I say, I'm going to be somewhere at five o'clock, you're going to be there at five o'clock, you know, to pick me up and not just like, somebody will be there. We'll figure it out. Don't worry about it. So, yeah, it didn't, it didn't occur to me, but my sister, my younger sister had a different relationship with my, my mom, like we all had different relationships with, you know, my mom, they're all in different places, in time, with, you know, all the children with their financial situation with whatever. So, by the time my younger sister was going off to school, my parents were retired. And, you know, they were just like, oh, Florida retirement, okay, you know, so they have more time to talk to her get more engaged with her. But when I was you know, growing up and doing my thing, it there wasn't any everybody was working. And it was just go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go go. So, yeah, but I did circle back around. I can't I came back I called I started calling and I and then I loved I mean, it took a few years but I miss those conversations. I love calling and Hey, Mom, what's going on and how you doing? And she didn't offer a lot of advice. She just my mom was a gossip. Gossip. It was just like, Oh, what do you have going on? So she didn't want to do that tell you you tell her story. She wanted you to entertain her with whatever was going on in your life. And so I had to be a little careful with that, because she did not. Like I could say, Don't tell anybody. Okay. And then I show up a week later to a roomful of people talking about my business. Like, why did you know that what the only person I told was mom, and I didn't go and tell my mom. I told you not to tell anybody. I didn't tell anybody. Or anyone, I don't know. Maybe you tell somebody else. So there, there's I guess where my boundary, I set a boundary? Like, this is what you need to know. Everybody in my family was on a need to know basis. Yeah. And I had to test them out. Like I really did. I want to give them some fake information and be like, Okay, let's see. I told you one thing. I told you one thing. Let's see what comes back. Who it comes back from? Yeah. And then now No, right. For the kind of game that I had to be playing to figure out like, what should I say? What can I say? What can I not say? Yeah. No, I'm thinking about that. Like, oh, my god, that is a that is not good. But that's what I needed to do.

All right, and we do the best we can. I mean, we're doing what we need to do. But the other thing that I learned about boundaries is I don't have to tell everybody, everything I'm feeling all the time. Oh, yeah. I don't I thought I had to be so honest.

Yes. No, that's,

I don't, I don't need to tell everybody everything all the time. I don't need to do that. And my life got so much easier, because then. And I think that was also part of, I think, in within the boundaries realm is this thing of building trust, right, we need to know who to trust over time, you know, and like you tested it out. So you knew who not to trust right there you test. I think Brene Brown talks about the marble jar about, you know, when you have a friendship every time you share a little more and get a little more vulnerable. And you find that that person doesn't use it against you or sandbag you, the marble in the jar. And then every time they do they put a marble in the jar and you build the jar full of marbles. And then when it gets high enough that you start to trust it. And then there's more of a free report, vulnerability, sharing, you know, but you have to build it up, it isn't something that happens. I know. I would like do trauma bonding. So I would find somebody that maybe had a similar trauma in their life, and we'd share and share and share and I'd be all open. And then I would feel like exhausted. And that person may not ever talk to me again, because I just shared too much. And it was really embarrassing. And I couldn't figure it out. Because in my mind, I thought Whoo, we really shared about deep, dark things. I was so vulnerable, and they seem to be vulnerable with me, how come we're not still talking. And that wasn't good, either. I don't need to tell everybody everything all the time. I need to be more discerning and more focused on what is important to me, you know, and so sometimes even now I have the challenge of am I being authentic and vulnerable? If I'm not saying these things, am I withholding? Now? It's always tricky, I think. I think it's tricky. Depends on the day and the person and my mood and how checked in Am I on myself today? Or am I just checking in on everything outside of myself?

But okay, I like that about checking in on yourself, or are you checking in on everything else outside because yeah, I have a lot of days like that, where it's all about everything else, but me and it really needs to be about the self that day. But okay, with communicating and talking and sharing with people. That's a hard one because I feel as as human beings, we want to connect with others. We want to share and try to form some kind of bond or just just connect. And that connection may be that you're spelling out your guts, because you haven't had anyone else to spill your guts to, you know, and it's just like the pot is overflowing and it's just now at the boiling point and it's just going to all move. Come out. And that one's hard because I don't I don't want now I'm thinking about it. And I don't want someone now To share something with me because, like if they need to get something off their chest, I mean, I'd be able to help them. I mean, I have the answer. But if they really just in that moment need to just get something off their chest. That's okay. No, is that not?

I think so. I mean, I think so. I mean, it's so specific to each individual because we're so unique. Right? And it depends. It just depends. And I, and I'm not. And I don't know, for me, I feel it. I know when I'm just blue. Because I'm not connected to myself. I'm not being mindful. I'm not conscious of where I'm at. Versus when I am conscious, which I hope it's when I do these podcasts that I am saying something vulnerable. That is that is safe, that is authentic, that is real, that is appropriate for the moment, right. Yeah, I don't know. I think, for me, I had to go through a lot of error, trial and error, trial and error, trial and error and forgive myself for the errors because I'd feel this deep shame. Sometimes it's like, oh, I still feel that sometimes when I have to say, No, I feel like I walk away. Like, I'm all puckered up and just know. But then I realized, no, that was what I needed to do. And usually, it's all fine. Like, usually, it's all fine. My head mate, makes me believe that 90% of the time, it's not going to be fine. But it's actually the other way around. When I test it.

Tested. Do you think that's an anxiety thing?

I think anxiety comes along with it, for sure. Absolutely. Anxiety is what made me say yes to everything.

Yeah, yeah, no, yeah. Because I

want to belong. I want people to like me, because I have this intrinsic need to belong. I think Brene Brown says that too. There's two things that all humans intrinsically need. love and belonging. So how much are we being inauthentic to get people to love us and let us belong

to the post, but I think that when I hit 50, that's where I stopped. Thinking about other people, like I had to reevaluate myself reevaluate where I was in life. And I. And I don't want to say, I have all the love I need. I just I have love. I do have love right now. And me constantly thinking about other people and what they think about me, and will they love me or not love me when I wasn't like I was more invested in what they were thinking about me than they were with me. Like, that's when I realized. And I read this, you know, that I was giving away my power to them for whatever. Well, the reason was that I wanted to be light, right? I wanted people to like me. And I, I didn't, I was talking about that for the longest time. Like I just, I wanted my friends, I wanted my friends, I wanted my friend. And I wanted people to like me. But I realized every time I do things, to be out there to be engaged to do all these things. It's me doing all this stuff, not everybody else. Like it wouldn't be like a one time thing. We'd get together, we talk we chat. And then I would say like, Let's get together again. Let's do this again. That was so much fun. Okay, yeah, sure. And then you never hear from people again. And then I back in the day would be the one calling and organizing. And let's get together. And let's do this. And let's go here. And sure enough, people would show up. But when I didn't do that, right, nobody picked up the phone to do anything. And it just took me all those years to realize, okay, you know what, enough is enough. I don't want to do that anymore. I'm tired of doing that. I really like if it but we've moved around a lot like my family has moved around a lot. So I understand. It's really hard to keep friendships and whatnot from long distance. So I had to just let that go. I couldn't be angry and upset with people. You know, because of that. We're going to continue moving around and going on, you know, with life. So I can't say that it's gonna get easier to make friends be like, not like, I don't care anymore about that, like wherever we go next. It's just about learning about the place that I'm at, enjoying the great outdoors and the location and whatever it has to offer. But I'm, I'm good. So I'm just like, I just need to go out and see the world. I just want to see and hear people's stories because there's so many things. I mean, I get listed fairly sheltered and sort of insular life. And I just want to see now, I want to hear.

And that's beautiful. That's like a nice example of wisdom. I mean, we've been five decades on this planet, God, hope we got some wisdom going on here. And I feel the same way. And it's so funny because I've been fine kind of doing my things on my own. I'm, I have no problem, like going to a movie by myself or eating at a restaurant by myself. But as I've gotten older, I've seen the richness of sharing it with somebody that I have created a friendship with, or a connection with. I really enjoy that now. And I don't have a ton of friends. And I'm the same way. I think somebody called me Cindy, the cruise director, member from The Love Boat. Yeah, always the one that was like, Hey, let's do this. And hey, let's do that. And, and in the beginning, I was always afraid, because people wouldn't say yes, or and I took it so personal. But I just kept doing it. And the other thing, what I realized, when I started getting more friends on board was, the more I was vulnerable with them. Because I did after my little trauma, bonding things, I thought, I'm never gonna say anything to people. And then I closed up like a clam, and then I couldn't get into community. And I kept wondering why. And then finally, I started being more vulnerable and sharing a little bit more about my about what's not good, because it's so easy to show up, and everything's great. And you're the silver lining person in your life is good. And you're just talking about gratitudes. That's easy. But then when there's an opening, and there's an opportunity to say, you know, this is what's going on, and it kind of sucks. And you give the Cliff's Notes version, people kind of go Oh, yeah, you know, and someone had I, in my relationships, I had to open that door, I had to become slightly vulnerable. And then there was reciprocity. And like, even still, some people it didn't work some people did. It's just I feel like I'm a constant experiment in my life. So just see what works. What doesn't

like that constant experiment in life. I did not, I guess I have a fear of rejection. I do not open up as much to people. Because I've had a few experiences where I'd like talking to people or you know, I'm, I'm exposing myself, I'm being vulnerable. And the reaction was not what I wanted, or I expected. So I yeah, I just don't and, and it's not like fear rejection, but it's the I really need you right now. Like, I have something I don't ask for a lot of things. I've done someone that asked for a lot of help. Yeah, I don't ask for a lot of help. I tried to solve everything myself or fix it, or just figure it out on my own. Because that's just what I'm used to doing. But I feel like when I do ask for help, it's like, you should know like, oh, yeah, you know what, charity doesn't ask up a lot. And here she is asking for help. This must be really serious, like, how can I help you? But I've done that, right. That's me thinking for other people. That's me projecting my own thoughts until other people that's know how people are going about their life and what they're doing and what's happening. So I recognize that now. But in the few instances where I have reached out for some help, and I didn't get that response, or that what I needed it, that's hurt. That's really hurt. So I try, I know that I try not to set myself up to be in that situation again. So I I can't, I mean, I that's how I'm like, I could have been walking down the street, impaled by something. And I will not be yelling out help. I'll just be like, well, I guess I gotta just get myself to the hospital. So I'll speed up by walking, get to the car and just drive myself there because I like what's the weight? And so that I do recognize that I am honest with myself that I know that I do that. I don't know at this late day and age, like, Is there gonna change? Do I need to change them? Maybe yes, maybe? No, I don't know. I'm doing okay. Yeah.

Yeah. That's great. And I think maybe situations do different things as a single mom, I I needed a community. You know, it's taken me years, though it's taken a decade to really have a community because I was thinking, the ultimate test for me I have to get a colonoscopy coming up here and put it off forever. And I think I need a ride. My daughter's gone to college, I don't have a husband, I don't have a boyfriend. Who would I asked to pick me up. And I thought, God, maybe there's nobody I'll have to Uber. But that's not true. I probably have five or six people I could ask. And I thought, all right. All right. That's cool. I was super grateful. I was like, that's awesome. I actually have probably five people I could call men and women was pretty awesome. But I was out a lot to that support group to it helped me. But speaking of boundaries, we are over the one hour mark. So we probably wrap this baby up. Okay.

Yes, we are done. I think, how do you want to sum it up? How do you want to sum up today?

I guess it would be where I mean for myself, I continue to ask, you know, how do I hold my boundaries? What do I hold boundaries on? And I think the implementation is probably the hardest part for me. Using the words to say no, in a way where it's still kind and loving. But I know that I have to put myself first without feeling guilty.

Yes. And make sure that when you're giving you know you're giving up your time giving up your resources, giving your attention the emotions that you're also giving to yourself. Right? Yes. Be giving to yourself. Be kind and have grace with yourself. Try not to take things personally.

Absolutely.

And I heard this one. Don't confuse being nice with letting people use you. Yes. Huge. That's a big one.

Huge, huge and don't compare your insides with other people's outsides. See, no. No is a complete sentence. Yes, I'm not and it's a sign of self love.

There you go. All right, people. Thank you very much for joining us.

Yes, thank you keep being effing honest.

Yay. Thank you for listening to being effing honest with your hosts, Jennifer Wong and charity Rodriguez. Subscribe to our show wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you have a suggestion, question or topic you want us to talk about, connect with us at www being effing honest.com And until next time, we hope you're always being effing honest